was right to go in, but I firmly agree with both 1 and 2 of your points.
As for 3, the democracy, I don't know if that can be forced on a people. We
have this conceit that everyone wants a democracy (or a republic, Tim :-) ),
but I think it's a pretty significant mental shift compared to historically
how most cultures have operated.
And for 4, I can't really even comment. I don't know what "success" means to
you. There is the rhetoric of peace, but the true peace of accepting others,
not de facto peace through homogeny created by killing the other, is not
something that our military can acheive. The best we can possibly hope for
is that the military action might create a window of opportunity for the
mental shift to happen. But the application of force does not engender
thoughts of peace. It engenders thoughts of counter-force.
Honestly, I don't see how we can win this war alone. If we pull out, we
lose. If we stay, we engender more anger and retaliation and we eventually
lose. Creating a multinational effort may help to diffuse the target of
anger enough. But really, the only way I can see "winning" is if the people
that we are fighting for determine to stand up for themselves. And then it's
not us winning the war, it's them winning it for themselves.
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:38 AM
Subject: Should we stay or should we go (Was RE: OMG FUNNY MOVIE!!)
> We've been through that many times and not one of us has reversed
positions as
> far as I can tell.
>
> A subject we haven't covered is should we let the reality of a few US dead
> every day effect how long we stay in Iraq now that we are there. Also
> interesting would be correlating responses to views of whether we should
be
> there in the first place.d
>
> So here is my view (coming from the perspective that we needed to be where
we
> are, although I would have been more patient):
> Now that we are there, we can not afford to leave for several reasons:
> 1. We would leave the Iraqi arguably worse off in the short run then
they
> were (worse infrastructure, economy, safety/security vs.. better control,
> freedom ....)
> 2. We would prove that anyone who can kill a few of us can make us run
> 3. A revitalized Iraq with their form of democracy would strongly,
> positively impact this tinderbox of a region
> 4. I believe that success in Afghanistan, Iraq and creating a lasting
> Mid-east peace are linked
>
> Andy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Smyth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:19 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: OMG FUNNY MOVIE!!
>
>
> should never have gone to war in the first place though Tim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 29 October 2003 14:15
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: OMG FUNNY MOVIE!!
>
> Good movie.
>
> Your logic sucks though. A rise in attacks, especially as they are
focusing
> even more on attacking Iraqis that work with the US, can definitely
indicate
> that they are worried about how well we are doing.
>
> Timothy
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
>
>
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