I take issue with most of your comments, so here goes.
Justin Buist wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Frank Hilliard wrote:
>
>>I'm finding 4.5 runs better on Linux than on NT, particularly in
>>handling mail.
>>
>
>Haven't ever tried using CF on NT and the mail features much, but I can
>attest that mail on Linux is rather unreliable. The worst thing is if
>mail is bounced back to the CF server there's no way for CF to capture the
>bounce or to even alert you of it that I've seen.
>
Bounced mail goes to the sender. I get all of mine, plus the cc's of course.
>Special considerations are that you're going to have to
>use SQL queries for inserting and updating,
>
>
>Versus database's on NT? I'm confused here.
>
VS CFINSERT and CFUPDATE which, not too surprisingly, most people who
start in CF use all the time.
>files and field names are
>case sensitive,
>
>
>Files, yes, but the field names depend on your DB entirely. Here, 'SELECT
>* from canDIDatES' works juat as well as 'SELECT * from candidates' on PG
>7.1.
>
OK, you're right. I'll give you that one.
>permissions have to be set properly (including the
>database password when you create your data source in Administrator),
>
>
>Versus NT ... where you don't have to secure the system? <boggle>
>
Right. And where you don't have to set permissions for every file in
every directory. I'm not saying NT's way of doing it is better, it
obviously isn't. What I'm saying is that if you've not run into this
before, exactly nothing works until you give specific permissions to the
datasource and to each level you plan call with local anchors or FTP into.
>
>
>>and the placement of timestamp fields is critical in SELECT statements
>>to avoid locking up the Server CPU.
>>
>
>I've never seen this occur except in your installation. I can select a
>timestamp with that field being that last one in the query w/out problems.
>
I have scores of error messages on this point, where the only difference
was the location of the field in the query. If new users have a weird
error that makes no sense and which is not covered in any reference
guide, I suggest they try stacking the timestamps first and the
numerical fields second. When I did, my errors went away.
>
>>There are also issues with
>>PostgreSQL regarding empty and NULL values in timestamp, numerical and
>>boolean fields.
>>
>
>Such as...? To me it treats NULLs just like a DB should.
>
No it doesn't . This is a typical expert response to this issue. I
realize you can set up test
instances where PostgreSQL will acccept an empty value, but it has to be at the end of
the query and the value in front of it has to not have a trailing comma. You can also
fake it with the actual word NULL or with a couple of '' quotes. But if you take a
query generated by phpPgAdmin (which puts quotes in automatically in NULL numerical
fields) and take the quotes out, and then run it, it won't work. Plain and simple. It
chokes on the comma which it interprets as a value. Sure you can take the comma out if
you only have one. But if you have 98 fields, as I did the other day, you can't just
drop the delimiters.
>>Beyond that, databases on Linux can't simply be copied
>>over as they can on NT, so the methodology of working with data is
>>different.
>>
>
>createdb db2
>pg_dump db1 | psql db2
>
That's a script, not a copy. If the script fails, you're up the creek
without a paddle. And it will fail if you haven't been very careful with
the permissions when you made the original database tables. Speaking of
COPY, that's a script too, with a failure rate that will horrify a first
time user. Every carrage return will cause errors, every missed
delimiter will force NULL values from text and varchar fields into
boolean, timestamp and numerical fields, and most exciting of all, every
null numerical field will generate a great big error.
>
>
>Plus with PG and Mysql's ability to drop the whole DB to one sql filled
>flatfile has always been a handy way for me to archive the schema and
>re-load it into a different box for testing w/out data.
>
>>I'd recommend getting VNC loaded on the server so you can see
>>everything in real time with a GUI. You'll need SSH access. Also make
>>sure Perl and PHP are installed because phpPgAdmin is going to be a huge
>>help.
>>
>
>Aside from SSH I've never needed either or the other tools to maintain the
>system. I wouldn't recommend installing either VNC or phpPgAdmin on a
>production system either. The more stuff you introduce the more likely it
>is that you'll forget a security update or two and a hole will be left
>behind.
>
I'll tell you why new users need this, they need it because they are
going to have to use the KDE superuser file manager to dig down to the
CSV file, open it up in Keditor and try to fix the errors caused by
COPY, to stop and restart the CF process and to use System Guard to
check to see if one of their misplaced timestamps has caused their
server's CPU to lock up. If you don't check your CPU load after running
new queries, you're just asking for trouble.
This is the kind of thing I notice the experts don't actually have much
to say about, the practical issues of using CF Linux and Postgresql.
When you actually get your table's converted and start hitting them with
queries that worked just fine on the NT side, suddenly there are BIG
problems. I haven't mentioned all of them by any means, for example the
way CF Linux radio buttons generate the variable "on" which is not
understood by Postgresql which actually wants "true". Most of the
issues I've just mentioned are not dealt with by anyone. Suggesting they
don't exist isn't really very helpful.
Frank Hilliard
http://frankhilliard.com/
>
>
>Justin Buist
>Trident Technology, Inc.
>4700 60th St. SW, Suite 102
>Grand Rapids, MI 49512
>Ph. 616.554.2700
>Fx. 616.554.3331
>Mo. 616.291.2612
>
>
>
>
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