I apologize for the off-topic mail in advance. Off-topic mail sucks, and to
send one knowing it's off-topic is a very bad thing, but I can't resist this
time.
I for one love this list, and love the way it's being handled. Every
non-moderated (ie, each message is reviewed by a human before release)
mailing list in existance has problems with off-topic mail from time to
time. You can not stop it completely. You can only manage it, and it's a
very time consuming task to do so. Same thing with technical glitches -
they will happen. Michael has addressed these issues in the past, and I'm
sure he will continue to do so. Concerning hardware and software
implementations; this list has successfully processed huge amounts of mail
in acceptable time frames. As Michael points out clearly below, he can't
control the intermediate points.
If someone can't definitively identify a choke point, don't expect Michael
to fix it by buying new hardware and implementing a new software scheme.
I hate the way people offer sweeping suggestions that involve completely
redesigning a system without having a clue as to the origins of any
perceived problems. Rather than sending an expensive and time consuming
'fix' up front, send a message that simply says "performance is down - need
any help"? If he does he'll let you know. Arrogance sucks.
I Really hate the way people send a demand, then expect an instant answer.
Or worse, an instant implementation of their genius. Arrogance sucks.
I Really Really hate the way some people assume that the list owner needs
trivial advice, and shoves it down their throat, again without having a
clue. Michael knows what he's doing - let him do it. Arrogance sucks.
I Really Really Really hate the way some people try to get the list owner to
make a change by sending manipulative messages to the list in an attempt to
force change through 'popular opinion'. The people that do this should be
in politics, not a technical field. Or, better yet, they should be a
dictator for a small country. Arrogance sucks.
* Michael and Judith already spend huge amounts of time with this list and
their other activities for the CF community. I applaud them for it. This
time takes away from the time they could be doing family things, or building
their own futures. They have lives outside of this. Unselfishness rocks.
* It's a free service to us, one of immeasurable value. I've saved big
buck$ and huge amounts of time for myself, my clients and my employer(s) as
a direct result of this free service. Unselfishness rocks.
* Michael and Judith handle all of the tangible list expenses out of pocket
(if I'm technically wrong, I'm sure the lion's share comes straight from
their bank account). Unselfishness rocks.
I apologize for my arrogance in sending this. Arrogance sucks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 1:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Mail Delay ?
I looked over the queued message base and didn't see any from your domain. I
did see some things like:
*2 Message(s) queued for delphi.com
*Reason: Couldn't establish SMTP connection on port 25 (1 message(s))
*Reason: Server closed SMTP connection (RCPT TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (1
message(s))
*9 Message(s) queued for earthlink.net
*Reason: Server failed (MAIL)
*Last attempt: Sun May 21 00:06:34 2000
*7 Message(s) queued for globo.com
*Reason: MX lookup failure
*255 Message(s) queued for treesage.com
*Reason: Unknown
*Last attempt: Sun May 21 00:46:42 2000
As you can see, the reasons for mail not being sent can vary on a per
machine basis. Have you asked the person who runs your mailserver about it?
There may be something with the connection under high volume.
The routing issues are people sending mail to others using the HoF server as
their mailserver. Two days a week or so, I get 80 processes running routing
messages rather than normal list functions. I'm hunting this down, but it
takes time. The badly formatted mail headers causes a message to show up in
the 'control' folder that can't be processed. This causes all threads to
hang for some strange reason and has to be killed by hand.
Finally, I agree totally about the OT messages. My office was offline all
friday due to a bell atlantic problem (and a storm). I didn't see the
messages till a lot later and was a bit upset to see so much of the list
going to a 'nothing' topic. I mean, the virus was such a dud, it didn't even
get to the list (which could also mean that everyone on the list is
protected). One message as a warning and then over to community. I'm
appointing a few 'extra' moniters to help move messages over to where they
belong. If we can get the list tightened up, it'll save bandwidth and time.
Ah, a perfect dream. :)
> Michael,
>
> "route through the server and send badly formatted email headers"
>
> Could you clarify this? I'd like to know if there's something I'm doing
> wrong, as I'm commonly seeing delays of six or more hours on week days.
> Needless to say, twelve hour turnaround times seriously decrease the
> usefulness of a support mailing list.
>
> I'd also like to see you address the recent increase in off-topic postings
> to this list. If that's a part of the cause of the poor performance, then
> I would think you'd be concerned. I've got no problem with someone
> posting a virus warning, but why the hell does it need to generate 25
> replies? It's gotten completely out of hand.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 10:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Mail Delay ?
>
>
> >Len, no disrespect intended, but I do accept help when offered and have
> >answered you a number of times in the past. All I ever seem to get from
> you
> >is public complaints (emailing me first and then the list 7 minutes later
> is
> >a perfect example). I've sent the DNS issues to my ISP, but I fail to see
> >how they are of massive importance to only you (re your isp taking you
> off
> >the list).
> >Now, as for the machine, I've got 256 meg of ram and a high processor on
> it
> >already. I'll upgrade to a new machine as time and finances permit. As
> for
> >the delays, I've done a lot to fix them, but if people keep trying to
> route
> >through the server and send badly formatted email headers, problems will
> >continue to pop up. This WILL change as new systems go online. I'd say
> that
> >90%+ of the time, the mail delay is within 10 minutes which is quite
> >acceptable.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >It's because there are a ton of people subscribed to the list and the
> >> >list is hosted on a server that could use an upgrade. It has a
> tendency
> >> >to get bogged down.
> >> >
> >> >So who wants to pitch in to buy Michael a new server?
> >>
> >> Wrong approach.
> >>
> >> He could keep his current server for the locgical list processing, and
> >> undisruptivelyh add something like an old P200 or better with 128 megs
> fo
> >> RAM running FreeBSD + postfix as a relay-only mail gateway for doing
> the
> >> nasty task of actual mail delivery. But if history is any guide,
> offers
> >of
> >> help don't get accepted. For a list this large and active and
> important
> >to
> >> its members, CF-talk deserves better performance.
> >>
> >> For Imail (or any brand mailserver, even Michal's ), I've got a site
> ...
> >>
> >> http://IMGate.MEIway.com
> >>
> >> ... that shows, and several ISP's done it successfully, how to build
> such
> >a
> >> simple "appliance", including step-by-step for Installing FreeBSD and
> the
> >> postfix mailer. It would also give the CF-talk list Internet's best
> >> anti-spam defense and DNS validations. A machine like that could
> easily
> >> handle several 100,000 msgs per day.
> >>
> >> Michael's DNS is also screwed up so, but he won't answer my repeated
> mails
> >> about how easily to fix it.
> >>
> >> Len
>
>
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