I am aware that it is Brian's own opinion and that of anyone else who has made a statement like that. Whether Brian is associated with Fusebox officially is irrelevant. I shared the quote from this thread simply as an example in regards to the statement I made.
-Matt On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > That's Brian's own opinion. He is not a member of the Fusebox team. > > On Fusebox.org's web page: > > "Fusebox is a standard framework and methodology for building > web-based applications. Currently used by well over 17762 people from > around the world, Fusebox attempts to reduce the 70% software failure > rate (download 105KB) by creating a standard framework and methodology > for writing web applications and managing web development projects." > > Nothing special there. Certainly doesn't sound like they're tooting > their own horn. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Matt Liotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:00 pm > Subject: Re: Cons to Fusebox > >> How about the following quote from this thread for example. >> >> "When compared to the alternatives (no structure at all, someone's >> >> personal >> best guess at something, or some superior approach that conspicuously >> manages to never actually be revealed) it is the best thing I've >> found >> so >> far. And about 17,000 other people agree. " >> >> -Matt >> >> On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> I don't think the Fusebox people are using that X number to say >> that >>> because there are so many X people using FB, so should you. >> Rather, >>> it's there for informational purposes, and to say that, yeah, >> people >>> are using it. Maybe not a lot in comparison to some other >> framework, >>> but the only winner in a comparison like that is the most >> popular item >>> in it's class. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Matt Liotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Date: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:34 pm >>> Subject: Re: Cons to Fusebox >>> >>>> See my response to another email along similar lines. However, I'd >>>> to >>>> respond to your email a little differently. >>>> >>>> Based on my earlier message it could be said that there is 10 >>>> times as >>>> many Java developers as CF developers, so why would one use CF >>>> over >>>> Java? There are tons of answers to that question that I think most >>>> of >>>> us know. In fact, we know these answers so well that we disregard >>>> the >>>> number of Java developers as irrelevant. >>>> >>>> Now then... with so many more people using Struts as opposed to >>>> Fusebox >>>> (both of which can be used in Java and CF), why would one use >>>> Fusebox >>>> over Struts? The answers to that question aren't as important as >>>> realizing that most CF developers don't know them. Thus, whenever >>>> someone tries to sell Fusebox based on the number of people using >>>> it >>>> the obvious question remains, why not use something with a greater >>>> >>>> following? >>>> >>>> I don't use Struts or Fusebox, so I don't care. I only point this >>>> out >>>> to show how silly the whole "17,000 people use Fusebox and you >>>> should >>>> too" line is. >>>> >>>> -Matt >>>> >>>> On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Sandy Clark wrote: >>>> >>>>> Why are you comparing the numbers using a Java Framework to the >>>> numbers> using a ColdFusion framework? Isn't that like comparing >>>> Appes to >>>>> Oranges? It >>>>> has no meaning. Does this mean that because there are more Java >>>>> Programmers, we should all just stop using CF and move to Java?? >>>>> >>>>> Struts is the most popular framework for Java. It doesn't mean >>>> that >>>>> Struts >>>>> can be used in C++ Development, nor does it mean that it can be >>>> used in >>>>> ColdFusion development (I did read the article on DevNet), but >>>> not >>>>> everyone >>>>> is doing cross Java/CFMX development. >>>>> >>>>> Instead compare Apples to Apples. Compare Struts to something >>>> like >>>>> JADE >>>>> (IBM) or Barracuda. Compare Fusebox to things like BlackBox or >>>>> SmartObjects. >>>>> >>>>> Those are true comparisons I would like to see. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:00 PM >>>>> To: CF-Talk >>>>> Subject: Re: Cons to Fusebox >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I saw this thread mentioned on Sean's blog and I was thinking >> about>>> rejoining this list before reading his blog, so here I >> am. I'm not >>>>> interested in trying to rehash much of the debate since I am >>>> late to >>>>> this thread, but I feel like it is important to make at least a >>>> couple> of points. >>>>> >>>>> First, I largely agree with Dave's position in this debate, but >>>> I don't >>>>> agree with him in regards to his application of common sense in >>>> lieu of >>>>> a framework. I think frameworks are extremely valuable and can >>>> make an >>>>> enormous difference in the success of web applications >>>> especially where >>>>> more than 3 people on working on them. Of course, picking the >> wrong>>> framework for an application can lead to all sorts of >> problems,>> so the >>>>> notion of one framework being the correct one in every case >>>> should be >>>>> abandoned. >>>>> >>>>> Second, I have seen numerous references by Fusebox people both >>>> in and >>>>> out of this thread in regards to how the sheer number of people >>>> using> Fusebox is an important point. I like to put that into >>>> perspective a >>>>> bit. According to Fusebox.org, there are 17756 using Fusebox. >>>> Not sure >>>>> where that number comes from, but let's apply that to the number >>>> of CF >>>>> developers, which is supposed to be about 300,000. That would mean >>>>> about 6% of CF developers are using Fusebox. Now then, let's >> assume>>> that 6% of Java developers are using Struts. Since there is >>>> supposed to >>>>> be about 3,000,000 Java developers that would mean there would be >>>>> 180,000 Java developers using Struts. >>>>> >>>>> There are a lot of reasons why one would use Struts over >> Fusebox and >>>>> vice versa, but if sheer numbers matter to people than Struts >> is the >>>>> way to go since it is used by a lot more people. BTW, if you >>>> don't buy >>>>> the above numbers; take a look at the Amazon.com sales rankings >>>> for the >>>>> 10+ struts books vs. the Fusebox books. >>>>> >>>>> -Matt >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 12:27 PM, Erik Yowell wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Trade offs. Everything is a trade off. Sometimes the quick, >>>>>>> unstructured 'hack' is the right solution... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This for me (being a small shop) is why I've extensively >>>> adopted a >>>>>> framework like Fusebox. Most of my projects are not going to >>>> become an >>>>>> Amazon.com anytime soon, while this doesn't mean I should write >>>> sloppy>> code - it does allow the flexibility of allowing a bit of >>>> a processing >>>>>> overhead in lieu of manageability and the ability to bring in >>>> external>> talent to easily assist me in changes (if needed) by >>>> providing a good >>>>>> set of standards and the Fusebox docs. I don't have to spend >>>> precious>> time educating another developer on the intricacies of >>>> a custom >>>>>> framework. >>>>>> >>>>>> Despite what organizations like Rational think (in the sense >>>> that >>>>>> there >>>>>> is no such thing as RAD development) - I mean, come on now, how >>>> many>> developers out there have had the "I needed it yesterday" >>>> conversation>> with a client? I find having the ability to quickly >>>> find and make >>>>>> changes to medium sized projects, forced structuring of code and >>>>>> application processes to be a boon. >>>>>> >>>>>> Erik Yowell >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> http://www.shortfusemedia.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
