That was pointed out in the comments on that blog entry (which is why
I specifically mentioned the comments were interesting). It isn't the
default perspective after installing CFE and, unless you're familiar
with the way Eclipse works, it isn't obvious how to change that at
first. Quoting from one of my posts in the comments:
"OK, I found the CFML perspective in CFEclipse. Yes, that makes the
workspace much better since it surfaces the snip tree view and the CFC
methods view."
> That is just plain non-sense. First you can just close the view if you
> want - making it a "cleaner" (read less work put into it) interface.
Again, assuming you are familiar enough with how Eclipse works. It's
obvious how to minimize / maximize views but not obvious at first how
to makes views go away altogether (or how to restore them later). Yes,
I figured it out after a while but this all goes to how Eclipse + CFE
behaves out of the box vs how He3 behaves out of the box - CFE relies
on users knowing a fair bit about Eclipse, He3 doesn't (or at least
doesn't rely as much on it). A lot of CFers who've tried Eclipse say
they don't like how complex it is (or appears to be) - it definitely
takes some getting used to.
> CFEclipse has preferences - it always has.
Again, read the comments where Spike points out how to find the CFE
prefs and I respond "Preferences. Thanx. I was looking for a dedicated
CFEclipse preference section (like He3 has) so I didn't notice that. I
can now set the insight delay to match what I have on He3!". It's
another Eclipse complexity that is just easier to find in He3.
> Again this is silly - it's one line of code - a good thing about cfe
> is that it does number coloring?! Do you even write cf code Sean?
Er, yeah, quite a bit actually... So even when I praise CFE (it's
color-coding is better than He3's) I still get flamed? The comparison
needs revisiting when He3 have fixed their color-coding of course but
right now it's much easier to read code in CFE.
> There are key bindings that go with those that, of course, but you
> didn't even look for them (because they are with all the other key
> bindings in Eclipse)
Right, so not knowing Eclipse, I wouldn't know where to look - if CFE
had all its prefs in one place in a separate prefs group, I'd probably
have found that and been happier. Having said that, I don't use
shortcuts for snippets anyway in DW (set it up, tried it, found I was
still usually quicker at just typing code instead of typing a mixture
of code and special keystrokes... years of writing code with 'vi' is
to blame for that I suspect).
> date inserter that inserts the date to where your cursor is in the file
Er, I never insert the date into a file... Why would I need to?
> Can anyone say re-invent the wheel? There are at least 2 other plug
> ins for eclipse that do just that.
Ease of use - He3 bundles a bunch of useful stuff that works well
together whereas you're recommending that I spend time locating
plugins and evaluating them to see which one suits me best. Again,
it's the Eclipse-is-complex-and-I-need-to-learn-it-to-be-productive
thing. If I can be productive without spending a lot of time and
effort 'building' my IDE, I'm going to be happier.
> So you advocate duplication of effort - grand.
> You really like that the *CFML* focused he3 authors spend their
> time making regex views - okey dokey.
I don't care if *they* have to duplicate effort if it helps me expend
less effort. I don't want my IDE to be a pain to set up right and I
don't want to have to go out to a bunch of sites and review endless
extensions etc just to get something that another IDE has already.
Even with DW, I only have two extensions installed - a TOC generator
and, more recently, a CFC bean wizard. I've been using DW for years
and only accrued those two. I guess I'm just not into customizing my
IDE like some folks.
> And again, should your CFML editor be good at CFML or
> Fusebox XML?
Obviously I'd prefer it be good at both :)
> While we are planning on framework support, don't you
> think it makes more sense to have a fusebox or mach-ii plug in?
No. I want it built-in. See above. I'm a lazy ass when it comes to my IDE! :)
> Some people don't care about fusebox or mach-ii, and
> architecturally it doesn't belong in the core of CFML tools - it goes
> a layer above it.
For me, Mach II support is *core* for my CFML IDE. HomeSite+ lets you
import a DTD and provides code assist against it. So does DW. He3 goes
a couple of steps beyond that and, for me, that's a very important
advantage.
> However, I am more saddened that you seem so
> biased, and obviously didn't even give cfeclipse a real try.
I've given it several tries so far and will keep trying it. As I
pointed out in my response to Spike, it's really hard to use an IDE
"for real" when it eats up CPU and chokes your machine :( It's not
like I've uninstalled CFE or anything...
> I wouldn't mind if you didn't like it for real reason
My reasons are real enough but different people are going to have
different reasons for liking or disliking a given IDE. I mean, take
HomeSite+ / CFS - I really, really don't like it. I tried. On and off
for years, I've tried. I've always preferred DW - even before I joined
Macromedia I preferred DW as an HTML editor to HS. Since joining MM
I've tried every version of CFS and HS+ released since mid-2000 and,
sorry, still don't like it. I still have it installed (even on a Mac -
one of my reasons for buying Virtual PC was to run HS and CF5 for
'reference'). Remember, I switched from DWMX to jEdit (because DWMX
was s-l-o-w) but I didn't exactly fall in love with jEdit even tho' I
preferred it to Eclipse. I switched back to DWMX when the updater
fixed the performance issues.
> I know you are hommies with the he3 gals, but man...
So you think. In fact, Matt's only recently come off my "blocked
buddies" list on IM and, apart from a meeting up at a cat show in
Omaha in February, I've hardly spoken to Rish since he left MM the
best part of two years ago. Also both of them went to do work for New
Atlanta which isn't exactly going to make "hommies" with anyone at
Macromedia! :)
In the meantime I've chatted with Spike quite a bit in IM and email
about a wide variety of things and I'd have considered him more of a
"hommie"...
I think it's going to be very interesting to see how both He3 and CFE
develop. There's clearly a lot of interest in both within the CF
community and I'm sure we'll lots of opinions on both sides...
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