I'm already on it. I'll respond once the convo moves over. On 9/29/06, loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sign up on CF-Talk if you would. > > I'd like to continue this. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:43 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > > Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit. > > > > WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. lol. > > There are tons of reasons why you may want to write your own session > > handler > > OR just write a new intermediary to connect with another db type, use > file > > system, etc. You really can't comment here unless you know what ASP.NET > > offers in the way of session customization. So you can use Java, write a > > service factory, blah blah. How long will that take for the common CF > > developer (medium to advanced level)? Seriously. Now research how to do > it > > in ASP.NET and do it in a much shorter timespan. > > > > First off, the same flex/flash controls can be used in any language so > no > > need to boast that. Yes, Flash forms are CF only but aren't very usable > > for > > the common CF developer that doesn't know AS (for complex things that > is). > > Your controls statement about .net is off. You can easily create your > own > > controls that provide intellisense and the 9 in minutes. > > > > ASP.NET is OS independent as well. I simply said you can leverage the OS > > MUCH better than in CF. That is it and all. > > > > Mobile, web, desktop blah blah blah. Dude, again...arguing just to > argue. > > I > > was merely clarifying that you can't compare CF to .NET. There is no > > battle > > there. .NET as a whole is way beyond CF for the simple fact that .NET is > > not > > a web programming language like CF. ASP.NET is. That is the comparison > you > > make. Too many people compare .NET to CF...you just can't. That is my > only > > point. > > > > I'm not arguing the price here. All I'm saying is that is what most > people > > have to go on. I could care less if Adobe drops the price or not. I > think > > it > > would be the best decision for CF and the community but who cares. We're > a > > small shop and will continue to shell out the cash for our CF > license(s). > > > > No, we haven't purchased a J2EE server. No need. > > > > To bottom line this for you man, I'm a hardcore CF lover. We use it > often. > > Our site is built with it. We do client work with it. I write about it. > > With > > all of that said, .NET's abilities (ASP.NET included) far exceed CF when > > you > > get beyond cfquery and simple output stuff. Seriously, learn C# and do a > > ..NET site. You will see what I mean. Again, I love CF and am not > turning > > my > > back on it. You just SERIOUSLY need to open your mind a bit. I was you > > less > > than a year ago. Arguing for no reason. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:24 AM > > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > > > > > Yes I can it's called wddx. > > > > > > My own session handler? Why would I, they wrote one for me. If I > > needed > > > more than what it offered I could extend my application using things > > like > > > the service factory and the other macromedia java objects that are out > > > there. I could also just write my own classes. > > > > > > Can I do mobile, web and desktop applications from the same platform? > > No > > > I > > > can't. I can't do desktop apps, you are correct, so what? If I am on > a > > > desktop I have a browser. Mobile and web I have covered. > > > > > > Controls? Leverage the OS? Hell, mine are OS independent, and I am > not > > > limited by what the controls I have been given or purchased. I can > > expand > > > my UI using Flex or Flash to give me any and all elements that I need. > > > > > > The price issue again, jeez. Seriously, with all that speed of > > > development > > > that you are talking about is the cost really that large of an issue > for > > > an > > > "ENTERPRISE" solution? > > > > > > Have you purchased a J2EE server recently? Know how much they cost? > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:14 PM > > >> To: CF-Talk > > >> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > >> > > >> > > >> Loathe, can you store that session data in a database with ease? > > >> If so, what > > >> database? Can you write your own session handler that integrates > > >> with the CF > > >> session handler? > > >> > > >> That's just a few things you can do with .NET. I know the answer to > the > > >> questions so no need to answer them. > > >> > > >> To back up some of what Phil said, do what ScottGu did here: > > >> http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/09/scottgu_linq_aspnet_iis > > >> _7_and.html. > > >> Do that in the amount of time he did it and I will sing praises. :-) > > >> > > >> The issue here is the power of .net vs CF. .net is > > >> enterprise...bottom line. > > >> You can build an end to end app in .net (mobile, web, desktop). > > >> CF is only > > >> web-based so you can only compare asp.net to CF, to be fair about it. > > >> > > >> CF is definitely faster from 0 to 60 when dealing wtih basic > > >> things. Now, if > > >> you want to create a datagrid that has paging, sorting, inline > > >> updating/deleting, etc in CF you'll be twiddling your thumbs for > > >> a while and > > >> an ASP.NET developer will be done in 2 minutes. That is the biggest > > >> difference between CF and ASP.NET. ASP.NET has controls. CF > > >> doesn't. ASP.NET > > >> can leverage the entire OS. CF can't. > > >> > > >> The robustness of ASP.NET cannot be denied. The speed of CF cannot be > > >> denied. They both are great tech's and this convo is really a > > >> losing battle. > > >> Regardless of which one is better in the mind of the developer, it > > should > > >> always come down to what fits the project best. > > >> > > >> I do agree that Adobe needs to reduce the price tag, drastically. > > >> If CF was > > >> free (for example), there wouldn't be much of a complaint by any of > the > > >> other religious .net'ers, php'ers, etc. Price is the biggest > > >> problem in CF. > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: "CF-Talk" <[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:01 AM > > >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > >> > > >> > > >> >I don't think I could disagree more. > > >> > > > >> > I've been around the CF community for a few minutes now, and I see > > the > > >> > exact > > >> > opposite. Now maybe in your market this is true, but I can assure > > that > > >> > CF, > > >> > at least in the government sector where I work, has been growing > like > > >> > crazy. > > >> > There are tons of CF jobs in the Washington DC area. > > >> > > > >> > Also, how does CF not have excellent session management? I mean, > we > > >> > use > > >> > groups of clustered boxes that give us excellent response > > >> times, up times, > > >> > and they all share our session information. > > >> > > > >> > Just wondering what site was it that you were on that had al of > > >> this crazy > > >> > traffic? > > >> > > > >> > I thought that Myspace has been about the largest web application > in > > >> > the > > >> > world for the last couple of years. > > >> > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >> From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM > > >> >> To: CF-Talk > > >> >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Steve, > > >> >> > > >> >> Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996. > > >> >> > > >> >> I've recently learned .NET via C# as well. The resemblance of C# > > >> >> to Java is > > >> >> remarkable which made the learning curve much faster for me. > > >> >> However, I must > > >> >> agree with you and also add that ASP.NET 2.0 is faster / requires > > less > > >> >> hardware to host the same ap. It has built in enterprise session > > >> >> capability > > >> >> that allows your SQL database to track your session state and > > >> much more. > > >> >> > > >> >> After about 6 months of learning / using .NET, I don't see myself > > >> >> using > > >> >> ColdFusion as a recommended middleware for large scale sites or > > >> >> clients that > > >> >> are on a budget. The company that I work for HAD the highest > traffic > > >> >> ColdFusion site on the planet. > > >> >> > > >> >> Here is a situation similar to mine: > > >> >> http://members.microsoft.com/CustomerEvidence/Common/FileOpen.aspx > > >> >> ?FileName= > > >> >> 10625_ComputerJobs_bizversion_300k.wvx > > >> >> > > >> >> The thing that I don't agree with that CJ.com said was about > > >> the number > > >> >> of > > >> >> developers it took to maintain the sites pre / post > > >> conversion. They must > > >> >> have had some code org. issues, because that has been the same for > > us. > > >> >> > > >> >> Unfortunately, I can see the writing on the wall for CF unless > > >> >> Adobe adopts > > >> >> a DRAMATIC pricing reduction strategy. Plain and simply put, with > > .NET > > >> >> and > > >> >> Mono in the market, CF can no longer increase market share whilst > > >> >> continuing > > >> >> to maintain / increase their pricing. They're not the only game > > >> >> in town and > > >> >> they need to start acting like it. > > >> >> > > >> >> I pains me to write this publicly about CF. So please no > > >> flames. I hate > > >> >> it > > >> >> just as much as the next CF'er. However, I am relieved that I have > > >> >> finally > > >> >> learned .NET because the .NET to CF job ratio is about 100:1 at > > least. > > >> >> Holding on exclusively to a versus mentality will only hurt > > >> >> yourself in the > > >> >> end. > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> --Phil > > >> >> > > >> >> ===========> > > >> >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >> From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM > > >> >> To: CF-Talk > > >> >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > >> >> > > >> >> I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight > edge > > >> >> in > > >> >> development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since the days > of > > >> >> original ASP. Now that ASP.NET has a top-notch visual designer, > > there > > >> >> are > > >> >> times when coding an ASP.NET application can be even faster than > > >> >> CF - given > > >> >> that the programmers knowledge of both is equal. > > >> >> > > >> >> Steve Brownlee > > >> >> http://www.fusioncube.net/ > > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> >> > From: Tom Kitta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> >> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:57 AM > > >> >> > To: CF-Talk > > >> >> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in .NET > > still > > >> >> > valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone expert on > > >> say Asp.Net > > >> >> > ... I just know VB myself, > > >> >> > > > >> >> > TK > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > > >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >> >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release > > >> Date: 9/22/2006 > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
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