I meant community, sorry. > -----Original Message----- > From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:11 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > I'm already on it. I'll respond once the convo moves over. > > On 9/29/06, loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Sign up on CF-Talk if you would. > > > > I'd like to continue this. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:43 PM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > > > > Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit. > > > > > > WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. > lol. > > > There are tons of reasons why you may want to write your own session > > > handler > > > OR just write a new intermediary to connect with another db type, use > > file > > > system, etc. You really can't comment here unless you know what > ASP.NET > > > offers in the way of session customization. So you can use Java, write > a > > > service factory, blah blah. How long will that take for the common CF > > > developer (medium to advanced level)? Seriously. Now research how to > do > > it > > > in ASP.NET and do it in a much shorter timespan. > > > > > > First off, the same flex/flash controls can be used in any language so > > no > > > need to boast that. Yes, Flash forms are CF only but aren't very > usable > > > for > > > the common CF developer that doesn't know AS (for complex things that > > is). > > > Your controls statement about .net is off. You can easily create your > > own > > > controls that provide intellisense and the 9 in minutes. > > > > > > ASP.NET is OS independent as well. I simply said you can leverage the > OS > > > MUCH better than in CF. That is it and all. > > > > > > Mobile, web, desktop blah blah blah. Dude, again...arguing just to > > argue. > > > I > > > was merely clarifying that you can't compare CF to .NET. There is no > > > battle > > > there. .NET as a whole is way beyond CF for the simple fact that .NET > is > > > not > > > a web programming language like CF. ASP.NET is. That is the comparison > > you > > > make. Too many people compare .NET to CF...you just can't. That is my > > only > > > point. > > > > > > I'm not arguing the price here. All I'm saying is that is what most > > people > > > have to go on. I could care less if Adobe drops the price or not. I > > think > > > it > > > would be the best decision for CF and the community but who cares. > We're > > a > > > small shop and will continue to shell out the cash for our CF > > license(s). > > > > > > No, we haven't purchased a J2EE server. No need. > > > > > > To bottom line this for you man, I'm a hardcore CF lover. We use it > > often. > > > Our site is built with it. We do client work with it. I write about > it. > > > With > > > all of that said, .NET's abilities (ASP.NET included) far exceed CF > when > > > you > > > get beyond cfquery and simple output stuff. Seriously, learn C# and do > a > > > ..NET site. You will see what I mean. Again, I love CF and am not > > turning > > > my > > > back on it. You just SERIOUSLY need to open your mind a bit. I was you > > > less > > > than a year ago. Arguing for no reason. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:24 AM > > > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > > > > > > > > Yes I can it's called wddx. > > > > > > > > My own session handler? Why would I, they wrote one for me. If I > > > needed > > > > more than what it offered I could extend my application using things > > > like > > > > the service factory and the other macromedia java objects that are > out > > > > there. I could also just write my own classes. > > > > > > > > Can I do mobile, web and desktop applications from the same > platform? > > > No > > > > I > > > > can't. I can't do desktop apps, you are correct, so what? If I am > on > > a > > > > desktop I have a browser. Mobile and web I have covered. > > > > > > > > Controls? Leverage the OS? Hell, mine are OS independent, and I am > > not > > > > limited by what the controls I have been given or purchased. I can > > > expand > > > > my UI using Flex or Flash to give me any and all elements that I > need. > > > > > > > > The price issue again, jeez. Seriously, with all that speed of > > > > development > > > > that you are talking about is the cost really that large of an issue > > for > > > > an > > > > "ENTERPRISE" solution? > > > > > > > > Have you purchased a J2EE server recently? Know how much they cost? > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:14 PM > > > >> To: CF-Talk > > > >> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Loathe, can you store that session data in a database with ease? > > > >> If so, what > > > >> database? Can you write your own session handler that integrates > > > >> with the CF > > > >> session handler? > > > >> > > > >> That's just a few things you can do with .NET. I know the answer to > > the > > > >> questions so no need to answer them. > > > >> > > > >> To back up some of what Phil said, do what ScottGu did here: > > > >> http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/09/scottgu_linq_aspnet_iis > > > >> _7_and.html. > > > >> Do that in the amount of time he did it and I will sing praises. :- > ) > > > >> > > > >> The issue here is the power of .net vs CF. .net is > > > >> enterprise...bottom line. > > > >> You can build an end to end app in .net (mobile, web, desktop). > > > >> CF is only > > > >> web-based so you can only compare asp.net to CF, to be fair about > it. > > > >> > > > >> CF is definitely faster from 0 to 60 when dealing wtih basic > > > >> things. Now, if > > > >> you want to create a datagrid that has paging, sorting, inline > > > >> updating/deleting, etc in CF you'll be twiddling your thumbs for > > > >> a while and > > > >> an ASP.NET developer will be done in 2 minutes. That is the biggest > > > >> difference between CF and ASP.NET. ASP.NET has controls. CF > > > >> doesn't. ASP.NET > > > >> can leverage the entire OS. CF can't. > > > >> > > > >> The robustness of ASP.NET cannot be denied. The speed of CF cannot > be > > > >> denied. They both are great tech's and this convo is really a > > > >> losing battle. > > > >> Regardless of which one is better in the mind of the developer, it > > > should > > > >> always come down to what fits the project best. > > > >> > > > >> I do agree that Adobe needs to reduce the price tag, drastically. > > > >> If CF was > > > >> free (for example), there wouldn't be much of a complaint by any of > > the > > > >> other religious .net'ers, php'ers, etc. Price is the biggest > > > >> problem in CF. > > > >> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> To: "CF-Talk" <[email protected]> > > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:01 AM > > > >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >I don't think I could disagree more. > > > >> > > > > >> > I've been around the CF community for a few minutes now, and I > see > > > the > > > >> > exact > > > >> > opposite. Now maybe in your market this is true, but I can > assure > > > that > > > >> > CF, > > > >> > at least in the government sector where I work, has been growing > > like > > > >> > crazy. > > > >> > There are tons of CF jobs in the Washington DC area. > > > >> > > > > >> > Also, how does CF not have excellent session management? I mean, > > we > > > >> > use > > > >> > groups of clustered boxes that give us excellent response > > > >> times, up times, > > > >> > and they all share our session information. > > > >> > > > > >> > Just wondering what site was it that you were on that had al of > > > >> this crazy > > > >> > traffic? > > > >> > > > > >> > I thought that Myspace has been about the largest web application > > in > > > >> > the > > > >> > world for the last couple of years. > > > >> > > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> >> From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM > > > >> >> To: CF-Talk > > > >> >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Steve, > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I've recently learned .NET via C# as well. The resemblance of C# > > > >> >> to Java is > > > >> >> remarkable which made the learning curve much faster for me. > > > >> >> However, I must > > > >> >> agree with you and also add that ASP.NET 2.0 is faster / > requires > > > less > > > >> >> hardware to host the same ap. It has built in enterprise session > > > >> >> capability > > > >> >> that allows your SQL database to track your session state and > > > >> much more. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> After about 6 months of learning / using .NET, I don't see > myself > > > >> >> using > > > >> >> ColdFusion as a recommended middleware for large scale sites or > > > >> >> clients that > > > >> >> are on a budget. The company that I work for HAD the highest > > traffic > > > >> >> ColdFusion site on the planet. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Here is a situation similar to mine: > > > >> >> > http://members.microsoft.com/CustomerEvidence/Common/FileOpen.aspx > > > >> >> ?FileName= > > > >> >> 10625_ComputerJobs_bizversion_300k.wvx > > > >> >> > > > >> >> The thing that I don't agree with that CJ.com said was about > > > >> the number > > > >> >> of > > > >> >> developers it took to maintain the sites pre / post > > > >> conversion. They must > > > >> >> have had some code org. issues, because that has been the same > for > > > us. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Unfortunately, I can see the writing on the wall for CF unless > > > >> >> Adobe adopts > > > >> >> a DRAMATIC pricing reduction strategy. Plain and simply put, > with > > > .NET > > > >> >> and > > > >> >> Mono in the market, CF can no longer increase market share > whilst > > > >> >> continuing > > > >> >> to maintain / increase their pricing. They're not the only game > > > >> >> in town and > > > >> >> they need to start acting like it. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I pains me to write this publicly about CF. So please no > > > >> flames. I hate > > > >> >> it > > > >> >> just as much as the next CF'er. However, I am relieved that I > have > > > >> >> finally > > > >> >> learned .NET because the .NET to CF job ratio is about 100:1 at > > > least. > > > >> >> Holding on exclusively to a versus mentality will only hurt > > > >> >> yourself in the > > > >> >> end. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> --Phil > > > >> >> > > > >> >> ===========> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> >> From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM > > > >> >> To: CF-Talk > > > >> >> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight > > edge > > > >> >> in > > > >> >> development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since the > days > > of > > > >> >> original ASP. Now that ASP.NET has a top-notch visual designer, > > > there > > > >> >> are > > > >> >> times when coding an ASP.NET application can be even faster than > > > >> >> CF - given > > > >> >> that the programmers knowledge of both is equal. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Steve Brownlee > > > >> >> http://www.fusioncube.net/ > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> >> > From: Tom Kitta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> >> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:57 AM > > > >> >> > To: CF-Talk > > > >> >> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in .NET > > > still > > > >> >> > valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone expert on > > > >> say Asp.Net > > > >> >> > ... I just know VB myself, > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > TK > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> -- > > > >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > >> >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release > > > >> Date: 9/22/2006 > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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