I'd have to somewhat agree with Sean here, although I'm not going to bag QUT or any other institution.
it's worth remembering that there are two distinct streams of education past high schools - higher education (universities and colleges with degrees): judged by how well you performed - vocational training (TAFE and other VET institutions): competent/not yet competent. the two are reasonably different. as you can gather, vocational training is skills based, whereas higher education deals with some of the bigger picture or takes a larger holistic view. "HOW" verses "WHY" to put it bluntly. Universities specifically *don't* teach you how to do tasks - you should (in theory) be smart enough to pick that up yourself (which is where the role of the tutor - and tutorials generally - is so valuable) what's happened in IT/Computer (and by extention us here in the webby world) is a collision of these needs. I'd argue that if you just want a coder, looks at TAFE's (et al) and not universities. There are plenty or RTO's (registered training organisations) deliving the ICA05 training packages (some diplomas are specifically for web development) but if you want a long-term employee who will grow well past that role and into areas like management then a TAFE diploma by itself may not cut it. Either get a Uni graduate and then skill them up or get an ex TAFE student and allow them further education paths. (this is just an FYI, no help for David in his specific case here) I've heard tons of ex-uni students who complain bitterly that their degrees taught then nothing but they learned much more moving to VET - it comes down to what students are looking for. I also suspect that many high school students have been let down by their guidance councilor in helping them understand what these different forms of education mean and what's best for them. ICT is a bit special because it's so heavily involved in doing, and how to do it is constantly changing. The demarcation between the two forms of adult education can be clearer in areas like humanities where training to get a diploma in social work does not equate to a bachelor of arts. (things are a fair bit more complicated than this - I'm just watering it down to make it easier to digest) last point: I won't speak for other states, but Queensland has embraced the concept of "life long learning" where the many levels of educational institutions are starting to work together in concert. Certificate 2's and 3's (or in some cases higher) or some first year Uni subjects (like Griffith Uni's GUEST program) are able to be done in senior at high schools. Part of it is marketing and capturing the minds of prospective students earlier than the competition, but part is to try and make the transition (all the way up to a Masters) flow a lot better. The idea is not new - for the last 8 years (longer?) a Diploma at Southbank TAFE has (generally) meant the first year off a degree at QUT - but the integration is getting a lot smoother and is now incorporating more high schools. sorry, David, this (by itself) doesn't solve your problem ...just some background in a nutshell... but my suggestion is contact some TAFE's in your area and see if they've got any graduates for "ICA50605 Diploma of Information Technology (Website Development)" http://www.google.com.au/search?q=ICA05+RTO hope this helps cheers barry.b On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Sean Bucklar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've certainly seen people I'd class as 'Juniors' graduating from uni. > As an employer I've seen kids come out of QUT's IT program having spent > 3 years in the database stream and the only DB they've used is access, > and the only programming they know how to do is through a wizard. > > If you go back to uni after working in the industry for a while, you'll > be horrified at how little the kids know, and how wildly out of > date/mickey mouse the course material often is. I've heard suggestions > that they deliberately push older/mickey mouse tech because it's more > widely used in small business which is where most Australians end up > working - but as an employer - it's much harder then it should be to > find a graduate who actually knows what they're talking about. Usually > we end up spending as much time training recent grads as we do training > an ex helpdesk monkey. > > > > Steve Onnis wrote: > > Is there such a thing as junior developers these days? I mean what sort of > > skill set does a uni student come out with these days and what unis still > > pump out web developers? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of David Heacock > > Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 PM > > To: cfaussie > > Subject: [cfaussie] Wanted: junior css/html ninja > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > If anyone knows a junior developer with strong skills in CSS and HTML, I'm > > looking for a contractor in Canberra for about 20 hours per week on-site. > > Coldfusion skills would be an advantage, but not required. > > Like I said, this is a junior position, so a current student, recent > > graduate or self-taught geek would be right for the job. > > > > Please ask them contact David Heacock at The ZOO Group, 02 6260 8777. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
