D'oh - wasn't my intention to particularly bag QUT - they were just intended to be a case in point.
I'm actually quite a fan of QUT as uni students/grads go. Almost all the students or recent grads that I've hired and been happy with came from QUT's programs - I know that's hardly an objective assesment, but I've really had far more good then bad experiences with the people that come out of their programs - it's just a continuing point of frustration that they so often, students who have 3 year degrees that on paper - should relate directly to the work we're recruiting them for, have never been exposed in any form to the tools that business actually uses. Barry Beattie wrote: > I'd have to somewhat agree with Sean here, although I'm not going to > bag QUT or any other institution. > > it's worth remembering that there are two distinct streams of > education past high schools > > - higher education (universities and colleges with degrees): judged > by how well you performed > - vocational training (TAFE and other VET institutions): > competent/not yet competent. > > the two are reasonably different. > > as you can gather, vocational training is skills based, whereas > higher education deals with some of the bigger picture or takes a > larger holistic view. "HOW" verses "WHY" to put it bluntly. > Universities specifically *don't* teach you how to do tasks - you > should (in theory) be smart enough to pick that up yourself (which is > where the role of the tutor - and tutorials generally - is so > valuable) > > what's happened in IT/Computer (and by extention us here in the webby > world) is a collision of these needs. > > I'd argue that if you just want a coder, looks at TAFE's (et al) and > not universities. There are plenty or RTO's (registered training > organisations) deliving the ICA05 training packages (some diplomas are > specifically for web development) > > but if you want a long-term employee who will grow well past that role > and into areas like management then a TAFE diploma by itself may not > cut it. Either get a Uni graduate and then skill them up or get an ex > TAFE student and allow them further education paths. > (this is just an FYI, no help for David in his specific case here) > > I've heard tons of ex-uni students who complain bitterly that their > degrees taught then nothing but they learned much more moving to VET - > it comes down to what students are looking for. I also suspect that > many high school students have been let down by their guidance > councilor in helping them understand what these different forms of > education mean and what's best for them. > > ICT is a bit special because it's so heavily involved in doing, and > how to do it is constantly changing. The demarcation between the two > forms of adult education can be clearer in areas like humanities where > training to get a diploma in social work does not equate to a bachelor > of arts. > > (things are a fair bit more complicated than this - I'm just watering > it down to make it easier to digest) > > last point: > > I won't speak for other states, but Queensland has embraced the > concept of "life long learning" where the many levels of educational > institutions are starting to work together in concert. Certificate 2's > and 3's (or in some cases higher) or some first year Uni subjects > (like Griffith Uni's GUEST program) are able to be done in senior at > high schools. Part of it is marketing and capturing the minds of > prospective students earlier than the competition, but part is to try > and make the transition (all the way up to a Masters) flow a lot > better. The idea is not new - for the last 8 years (longer?) a Diploma > at Southbank TAFE has (generally) meant the first year off a degree at > QUT - but the integration is getting a lot smoother and is now > incorporating more high schools. > > sorry, David, this (by itself) doesn't solve your problem ...just some > background in a nutshell... > > but my suggestion is contact some TAFE's in your area and see if > they've got any graduates for "ICA50605 Diploma of Information > Technology (Website Development)" > > http://www.google.com.au/search?q=ICA05+RTO > > > hope this helps > cheers > barry.b > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Sean Bucklar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I've certainly seen people I'd class as 'Juniors' graduating from uni. >> As an employer I've seen kids come out of QUT's IT program having spent >> 3 years in the database stream and the only DB they've used is access, >> and the only programming they know how to do is through a wizard. >> >> If you go back to uni after working in the industry for a while, you'll >> be horrified at how little the kids know, and how wildly out of >> date/mickey mouse the course material often is. I've heard suggestions >> that they deliberately push older/mickey mouse tech because it's more >> widely used in small business which is where most Australians end up >> working - but as an employer - it's much harder then it should be to >> find a graduate who actually knows what they're talking about. Usually >> we end up spending as much time training recent grads as we do training >> an ex helpdesk monkey. >> >> >> >> Steve Onnis wrote: >> > Is there such a thing as junior developers these days? I mean what sort >> of >> > skill set does a uni student come out with these days and what unis still >> > pump out web developers? >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> > Of David Heacock >> > Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 PM >> > To: cfaussie >> > Subject: [cfaussie] Wanted: junior css/html ninja >> > >> > >> > Hi All, >> > >> > If anyone knows a junior developer with strong skills in CSS and HTML, I'm >> > looking for a contractor in Canberra for about 20 hours per week on-site. >> > Coldfusion skills would be an advantage, but not required. >> > Like I said, this is a junior position, so a current student, recent >> > graduate or self-taught geek would be right for the job. >> > >> > Please ask them contact David Heacock at The ZOO Group, 02 6260 8777. >> > >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
