Clay Shirky rebuts Toyama much better then I ever could: http://crookedtimber.org/2011/10/10/guestpost-communications-tools-agency-and-anxiety/
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Tapan Parikh <tapan at cs.washington.edu>wrote: > Ive never understood Kentaros point here, or at least why its delivered > with such pessimism. > > Its strictly a glass half-full, half-empty kind of argument. Of course > technology does not achieve its effect in isolation. Of course you need all > the rest of the things Kentaro mentions. But an "amplifier of your intent" > still sounds pretty awesome to me. This is what Steve Jobs was trying to do > for us, and what we are trying (successfully or unsuccessfully) to achieve > for the poor and marginalized through ICT4D. Im not saying that computers > are the best or most appropriate technology, but the potential is there, and > that is why we are working to achieve it, and why it is still research. > > I find Joyojeet's critique much more interesting. Are computers truly > amplifiers, or are they strictly aspirational? Said another way, is high > technology perceived as an end in and of itself, or do we understand its > true machinations*, and use them for some other higher purpose - the highest > being to learn, and through the process become better people, or a better > society. I am sure everyone who has worked in ICTD has directly observed > "gadget lust" in our partners, users, and without doubt, in ourselves. > > Summarizing my point, the important question is "are u the one riding the > horse, or is the horse riding you?". The jury is still out on this for > ICT4D, as it is for the rest of the World, IMHO. > > * For the philosophy and German buffs, see Heidegger's "The Question > Concerning Technology". > > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: > >> rahul, >> >> i would encourage you to check out >> http://www.kentarotoyama.org/research. i think his work on >> technology as an amplifier and the ten myths of ict4d will be quite >> insightful. >> >> yaw >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 18:16, Rahul Banerjee <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> >> wrote: >> > Yes, I agree that this is simply another hardware platform on which >> > people can build stuff. It is a solution enabler, not a solution in >> > itself. However, this price point means that one can deploy solutions >> > for cheaper than with existing hardware. >> > >> > I think we all agree that *solutions* built on top of hardware >> > platforms change people's lives -- cheap hardware simply opens up such >> > possibilities to interested parties who want to build solutions, but >> > don't have enough money for expensive hardware. >> > >> > I would like to emphasize this point -- the best ideas can come from >> > anywhere. Once you let such a cheap device loose into the wild (so to >> > speak), I'm certain that several talented people will come up with >> > good ideas and implement them. What remains to be seen is how many of >> > those are useful and improve people's lives significantly. >> > >> > -- >> > Rahul >> > >> > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Clint Tseng <cxlt at cs.washington.edu> >> wrote: >> >> Yes, but your argument is centered around how the technology is better. >> I >> >> don't think I have to point out who we're echoing when we say that >> >> technology alone is not enough. We could make the Galaxy S2 or the >> iPhone 4 >> >> cost $10 and it simply wouldn't make the kind of difference you'd hope >> for >> >> (eg, much at all). >> >> The App Store is not available because you have to pay Google licensing >> fees >> >> to put it on your device, which would have driven the cost up. >> >> Touchscreens are nice, but I don't think any of this will truly matter >> for >> >> the populations we're talking about until we see voice technology like >> Siri >> >> develop to the point where you don't need to care that you're talking >> to >> >> technology. At that point, perhaps it's worth revisiting the >> distribution of >> >> generic technology to remote regions and untrained users without caring >> >> about what their actual needs are. For now, it's still much better to >> >> actually do the footwork to figure out what people need and give them >> that >> >> than to try to hand out or sell general purpose computing devices and >> hope >> >> to make a difference. >> >> $0.02. >> >> -Clint >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rahul Banerjee wrote: >> >> >> >> Against a cell phone, the tablet's screen is a compelling argument. >> >> >> >> However, I don't know if really poor people (who are mostly >> >> illiterate) would go for a tablet over a *television* -- I've observed >> >> that even people living in illegally constructed shacks next to train >> >> tracks always have a DTH antenna dish sticking out from the roof. My >> >> belief is that: >> >> 1. TV's are dead simple to operate -- turn them on and they work. If >> >> you can't navigate your magical tablet's touchscreen, you have a >> >> magical paperweight. >> >> 2. There's decent infrastructure in place (in India) to get a >> >> direct-to-home subscription. I've been to some pretty remote places in >> >> India (places that are accessible only using off-road vehicles and are >> >> completely cut-off for three months during winter) and nearly all >> >> these houses had dish antennas. AFAIK, 3G-based data plans aren't that >> >> ubiquitous yet (you could only get them in certain cities in India >> >> last time I checked -- about 2 months ago). >> >> >> >> The battery question is an interesting one -- I read a review which >> >> stated that the battery life is two hours. I've observed in urban >> >> slums that (illegally) hooking up wires to overhead electricity supply >> >> cables (a dangerous practice, to be sure) is common. I'm not claiming >> >> that this is the norm everywhere, but financial pressure often >> >> eliminates batteries anyway :) >> >> >> >> I'm going to keep on harping on the "poor but intelligent/talented >> >> student" angle. These are the people who'll benefit the most from such >> >> a device. Imagine being able to read textbooks on this! Btw, I also >> >> discovered in the review that the App Store / Marketplace is disabled, >> >> which is *not cool*. Maybe they don't expect the target users to have >> >> connectivity, but this severely limits the platform. There are a ton >> >> of free apps out there which the users cannot get, and now custom >> >> delivery platforms will have to be built for every project (I'm >> >> thinking of textbooks, telemedicine, the fieldwork apps like the >> >> Verbal Autopsy stuff, etc) >> >> >> >> I've rambled enough here. My summary would be that this is a giant >> >> step forward, but the poorest of the poor (think indigent poverty) >> >> won't magically lift themselves out of poverty using this one device. >> >> However, it does generate lots of exciting possibilities for >> >> "slightly-better-off" segments and it can be an enabling device for >> >> several projects on a shoestring budget. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Fritz Meissner < >> fritz.meissner at gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Just brainstorming a hypothetically compelling reason: consumption of >> >> locally-made movies, which I'm given to understand currently happens >> >> wholesale on cellphones in India. Would the move to tablet form, i.e. >> bigger >> >> screen and (one would hope) better sound, make for a massively improved >> >> experience? >> >> The Aakash could be a better investment than a TV / DVD player, given >> the >> >> greater capacity and reusability of USB or SD cards compared to DVDs. >> Of >> >> course, the TV has a bigger screen, but it doesn't run on batteries. >> How >> >> much would a TV cost? >> >> >> >> Fritz >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerome White <jerome at cs.caltech.edu> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> However, there is a "rural/poor" segment that could afford this: those >> >> making between 5 and 10 thousand Rupees a month. In fact it's what some >> >> spend on a mobile phone. However, with the mobile, there is very >> compelling >> >> reason to make such an investment. A similarly compelling reason, from >> their >> >> perspective, to own this device isn't clear to me. >> >> >> >> But, at least we've got another device to help us generate publications >> :) >> >> >> >> jerome >> >> >> >> On 06-Oct-2011, at 4:11 PM, Fritz Meissner wrote: >> >> >> >> How much is $35 to the poorest of the poor? I recall an economics study >> >> that paid Indian workers the equivalent of a monthly salary, I think >> that >> >> was 50USD... 35USD is beyond cheap in the West but perhaps still not >> >> affordable in that context. >> >> >> >> OTOH if the tablet is locally made, perhaps just the work that the >> >> manufacturer provides will be beneficial. >> >> >> >> Fritz >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Joyojeet Pal <joyojeet at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> I agree with Yaw on this -- sure, it is great that this technology is >> so >> >> cheap, and one can argue that similar such efforts have brought up new >> >> technology innovations (Netbook etc) and various other benefits, what >> is >> >> deeply problematic is the idea that this will solve the issues of >> >> development in India, and Indian minister Kapil Sibal's announcing the >> >> project as being some kind of a dig out of exclusion >> >> ( >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/india-announces-35-tablet-computer-to-help-lift-villagers-out-of-poverty/2011/10/05/gIQAPT8PNL_story.html >> ) >> >> >> >> If you look at UNDP's latest HDI report on India, you may find that >> >> someone should find this claim at least quixotic, given that the >> country >> >> ranks 119th in the world for what ranks are worth. India as a state >> spends >> >> among the lowest on education (3.6%) and healthcare (1.1%) and has an >> income >> >> inequality problem that is by all measure growing yearly, gender >> inequity is >> >> 0.748 (on a scale of the 'best' at 0.212 and 'worst' at 0.814). the >> average >> >> Indian spends 4.4 years in formal schooling.. the list goes on and on. >> >> >> >> i'm not saying this is not a significant achievement, my concern is >> >> tying this to development in such a way, in fact specifically in the >> >> perception that this could be the state's part in providing development >> in >> >> india. i think it hurts the cause of folks working in this space at the >> very >> >> least. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> the hype around this tablet is terrible. >> >> >> >> i think it's great to have cheaper technology, but android tablets, >> >> even cheap $35 android tablets, will not lift villagers out of >> >> poverty. i wish it were that easy... >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 15:49, Rahul Banerjee >> >> <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> wrote: >> >> >> >> Sorry for the spam, but I couldn't resist sharing such wonderful news: >> >> >> >> >> http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/India-announces-35-tablet-computer-for-rural-poor-2203509.php >> >> >> >> (Actually, the government is subsidising its price (which would be >> >> closer to $50), but it's still pretty amazing that something like this >> >> exists at all) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Rahul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> change mailing list >> >> change at change.washington.edu >> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > change mailing list >> > change at change.washington.edu >> > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> change mailing list >> change at change.washington.edu >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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