carlos forgot the link. http://www.ictworks.org/news/2011/10/07/why-indias-35-aakash-android-tablet-edutech-red-herring-ict-deployments-education
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:40, Carlos Rey <crey at ehas.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm following with a lot of interest your discussion and I just read this > post at ICTWorks' website and thought it may be of interest for it. > > Regards, > > Carlos > > On 07/10/11 19:28, James Dailey wrote: > > Tapan's assessment rings true for me. > I would also say that in my experience, Technology is both an amplifier and > aspirational. ?Beyond mere amplification, an important distinction should be > made between an amplification of current "ways of doing business" and > dramatically new ways of doing business that are a result of a tipping point > that the technology allows us to reach. > Are ipods, itunes, and the digitalization of music strictly necessary for > us? ? Does it make sense for our society to spend billions on that while > there were perfectly good ways of listening to music? ? My take is that it > is an irrelevant question - we live in such a world. ? We live in a world > where people (given a choice) aspire to own the newest and greatest, and > where ICT enables new modes of business/interaction/service delivery in the > real world. > The democratization of technology, the widest possible adoption, though, > requires a price point and a set of features /form factors / experiential > benefit that - on balance - are sufficient in their aspirational bounty and > their tipping "pointiness". > This new $35 device, with a touchpad, seems like a great move - and a huge > opportunity. ?More moves in this direction would include a better battery, > solar thin film on the reverse side for easy recharging in the tropics, > hardened for outside field use (water proof against rain storms/ dust proof > against the road), and lower price. > The poor pay more for their services (water, power, information) than the > rich on a per unit basis, and so shared access models and lower cost > technologies that dramatically lower the barriers and increase the > availability is a - on balance - a net positive. > - James Dailey > SEATTLE > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Tapan Parikh <tapan at cs.washington.edu> > wrote: >> >> Ive never understood Kentaros point here, or at least why its delivered >> with such pessimism. >> Its strictly a glass half-full, half-empty kind of argument. ?Of course >> technology does not achieve its effect in isolation. ?Of course you need all >> the rest of the things Kentaro mentions. ?But an "amplifier of your intent" >> still sounds pretty awesome to me. ?This is what Steve Jobs was trying to do >> for us, and what we are trying (successfully or unsuccessfully) to achieve >> for the poor and marginalized through ICT4D. ?Im not saying that computers >> are the best or most appropriate technology, but the potential is there, and >> that is why we are working to achieve it, and why it is still research. >> I find Joyojeet's critique much more interesting. ?Are computers truly >> amplifiers, or are they strictly aspirational? ?Said another way, is high >> technology perceived as an end in and of itself, or do we understand its >> true machinations*, and use them for some other higher purpose - the highest >> being to learn, and through the process become better people, or a better >> society. I am sure everyone who has worked in ICTD has directly observed >> "gadget lust" in our partners, users, and without doubt, in ourselves. >> Summarizing my point, the important question is "are u the one riding the >> horse, or is the horse riding you?". ?The jury is still out on this for >> ICT4D, as it is for the rest of the World, IMHO. >> >> *?For the philosophy and German buffs, see Heidegger's "The Question >> Concerning Technology". >> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> rahul, >>> >>> i would encourage you to check out >>> http://www.kentarotoyama.org/research. i think his work on >>> technology as an amplifier and the ten myths of ict4d will be quite >>> insightful. >>> >>> yaw >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 18:16, Rahul Banerjee <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> >>> wrote: >>> > Yes, I agree that this is simply another hardware platform on which >>> > people can build stuff. It is a solution enabler, not a solution in >>> > itself. However, this price point means that one can deploy solutions >>> > for cheaper than with existing hardware. >>> > >>> > I think we all agree that *solutions* built on top of hardware >>> > platforms change people's lives -- cheap hardware simply opens up such >>> > possibilities to interested parties who want to build solutions, but >>> > don't have enough money for expensive hardware. >>> > >>> > I would like to emphasize this point -- the best ideas can come from >>> > anywhere. Once you let such a cheap device loose into the wild (so to >>> > speak), I'm certain that several talented people will come up with >>> > good ideas and implement them. What remains to be seen is how many of >>> > those are useful and improve people's lives significantly. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Rahul >>> > >>> > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Clint Tseng <cxlt at cs.washington.edu> >>> > wrote: >>> >> Yes, but your argument is centered around how the technology is >>> >> better. I >>> >> don't think I have to point out who we're echoing when we say that >>> >> technology alone is not enough. We could make the Galaxy S2 or the >>> >> iPhone 4 >>> >> cost $10 and it simply wouldn't make the kind of difference you'd hope >>> >> for >>> >> (eg, much at all). >>> >> The App Store is not available because you have to pay Google >>> >> licensing fees >>> >> to put it on your device, which would have driven the cost up. >>> >> Touchscreens are nice, but I don't think any of this will truly matter >>> >> for >>> >> the populations we're talking about until we see voice technology like >>> >> Siri >>> >> develop to the point where you don't need to care that you're talking >>> >> to >>> >> technology. At that point, perhaps it's worth revisiting the >>> >> distribution of >>> >> generic technology to remote regions and untrained users without >>> >> caring >>> >> about what their actual needs are. For now, it's still much better to >>> >> actually do the footwork to figure out what people need and give them >>> >> that >>> >> than to try to hand out or sell general purpose computing devices and >>> >> hope >>> >> to make a difference. >>> >> $0.02. >>> >> -Clint >>> >> >>> >> On Thursday, October 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rahul Banerjee wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Against a cell phone, the tablet's screen is a compelling argument. >>> >> >>> >> However, I don't know if really poor people (who are mostly >>> >> illiterate) would go for a tablet over a *television* -- I've observed >>> >> that even people living in illegally constructed shacks next to train >>> >> tracks always have a DTH antenna dish sticking out from the roof. My >>> >> belief is that: >>> >> 1. TV's are dead simple to operate -- turn them on and they work. If >>> >> you can't navigate your magical tablet's touchscreen, you have a >>> >> magical paperweight. >>> >> 2. There's decent infrastructure in place (in India) to get a >>> >> direct-to-home subscription. I've been to some pretty remote places in >>> >> India (places that are accessible only using off-road vehicles and are >>> >> completely cut-off for three months during winter) and nearly all >>> >> these houses had dish antennas. AFAIK, 3G-based data plans aren't that >>> >> ubiquitous yet (you could only get them in certain cities in India >>> >> last time I checked -- about 2 months ago). >>> >> >>> >> The battery question is an interesting one -- I read a review which >>> >> stated that the battery life is two hours. I've observed in urban >>> >> slums that (illegally) hooking up wires to overhead electricity supply >>> >> cables (a dangerous practice, to be sure) is common. I'm not claiming >>> >> that this is the norm everywhere, but financial pressure often >>> >> eliminates batteries anyway :) >>> >> >>> >> I'm going to keep on harping on the "poor but intelligent/talented >>> >> student" angle. These are the people who'll benefit the most from such >>> >> a device. Imagine being able to read textbooks on this! Btw, I also >>> >> discovered in the review that the App Store / Marketplace is disabled, >>> >> which is *not cool*. Maybe they don't expect the target users to have >>> >> connectivity, but this severely limits the platform. There are a ton >>> >> of free apps out there which the users cannot get, and now custom >>> >> delivery platforms will have to be built for every project (I'm >>> >> thinking of textbooks, telemedicine, the fieldwork apps like the >>> >> Verbal Autopsy stuff, etc) >>> >> >>> >> I've rambled enough here. My summary would be that this is a giant >>> >> step forward, but the poorest of the poor (think indigent poverty) >>> >> won't magically lift themselves out of poverty using this one device. >>> >> However, it does generate lots of exciting possibilities for >>> >> "slightly-better-off" segments and it can be an enabling device for >>> >> several projects on a shoestring budget. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Rahul >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Fritz Meissner >>> >> <fritz.meissner at gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Just brainstorming a hypothetically compelling reason: consumption of >>> >> locally-made movies, which I'm given to understand?currently happens >>> >> wholesale on cellphones in India. Would the move to tablet form, i.e. >>> >> bigger >>> >> screen and (one would hope) better sound, make for a massively >>> >> improved >>> >> experience? >>> >> The Aakash could be a better investment than a TV / DVD player, given >>> >> the >>> >> greater capacity and reusability of USB or SD cards compared to DVDs. >>> >> Of >>> >> course, the TV has a bigger screen, but it doesn't run on batteries. >>> >> How >>> >> much would a TV cost? >>> >> >>> >> Fritz >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerome White <jerome at cs.caltech.edu> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> However, there is a "rural/poor" segment that could afford this: those >>> >> making between 5 and 10 thousand Rupees a month. In fact it's what >>> >> some >>> >> spend on a mobile phone. However, with the mobile, there is very >>> >> compelling >>> >> reason to make such an investment. A similarly compelling reason, from >>> >> their >>> >> perspective, to own this device isn't clear to me. >>> >> >>> >> But, at least we've got another device to help us generate >>> >> publications :) >>> >> >>> >> jerome >>> >> >>> >> On 06-Oct-2011, at 4:11 PM, Fritz Meissner wrote: >>> >> >>> >> How much is $35 to the poorest of the poor? I recall an economics >>> >> study >>> >> that paid Indian workers the equivalent of a monthly salary, I think >>> >> that >>> >> was 50USD... 35USD is beyond cheap in the West but perhaps still not >>> >> affordable in that context. >>> >> >>> >> OTOH if the tablet is locally made, perhaps just the work that the >>> >> manufacturer provides will be beneficial. >>> >> >>> >> Fritz >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Joyojeet Pal <joyojeet at gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> I agree with Yaw on this -- sure, it is great that this technology is >>> >> so >>> >> cheap, and one can argue that similar such efforts have brought up new >>> >> technology innovations (Netbook etc) and various other benefits, what >>> >> is >>> >> deeply problematic is the idea that this will solve the issues of >>> >> development in India, and Indian minister Kapil Sibal's announcing the >>> >> project as being some kind of a dig out of exclusion >>> >> >>> >> (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/india-announces-35-tablet-computer-to-help-lift-villagers-out-of-poverty/2011/10/05/gIQAPT8PNL_story.html) >>> >> >>> >> If you look at UNDP's latest HDI report on India, you may find that >>> >> someone should find this claim at least quixotic, given that the >>> >> country >>> >> ranks 119th in the world for what ranks are worth. India as a state >>> >> spends >>> >> among the lowest on education (3.6%) and healthcare (1.1%) and has an >>> >> income >>> >> inequality problem that is by all measure growing yearly, gender >>> >> inequity is >>> >> 0.748 (on a scale of the 'best' at 0.212 and 'worst' at 0.814). the >>> >> average >>> >> Indian spends 4.4 years in formal schooling.. the list goes on and on. >>> >> >>> >> i'm not saying this is not a significant achievement, my concern is >>> >> tying this to development in such a way, in fact specifically in the >>> >> perception that this could be the state's part in providing >>> >> development in >>> >> india. i think it hurts the cause of folks working in this space at >>> >> the very >>> >> least. >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> the hype around this tablet is terrible. >>> >> >>> >> i think it's great to have cheaper technology, but android tablets, >>> >> even cheap $35 android tablets, will not lift villagers out of >>> >> poverty. i wish it were that easy... >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 15:49, Rahul Banerjee >>> >> <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Sorry for the spam, but I couldn't resist sharing such wonderful news: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/India-announces-35-tablet-computer-for-rural-poor-2203509.php >>> >> >>> >> (Actually, the government is subsidising its price (which would be >>> >> closer to $50), but it's still pretty amazing that something like this >>> >> exists at all) >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Rahul >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> change mailing list >>> >> change at change.washington.edu >>> >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > change mailing list >>> > change at change.washington.edu >>> > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> change mailing list >>> change at change.washington.edu >>> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> change mailing list >> change at change.washington.edu >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change >> > > > > -- > James Dailey > skype: jdailey > > > _______________________________________________ > change mailing list > change at change.washington.edu > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > > > -- > Carlos Rey Moreno > Investigador Fundaci?n EHAS - www.ehas.org > Soluciones TICs apropiadas para zonas rurales de pa?ses en Desarrollo > Edificio de Biblioteca, Despacho B013, E.T.S.I.T URJC > Camino del Molino s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) - ES > Tel.: +34 91 488 87 13 / M?vil: +34 666 01 92 82 > Skype: carlos.reymoreno > Twitter: creym > Si quieres estar al d?a de las actualidad de las TIC para el Desarrollo, > suscr?bete en http://lists.ehas.org/listinfo.cgi/ticxdh-ehas.org > > _______________________________________________ > change mailing list > change at change.washington.edu > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >
