Where is the refutation? Just because the English language wants us to frame things in a certain way doesn't mean that's the reality.
-Sunil On Oct 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Tapan Parikh wrote: > Clay Shirky rebuts Toyama much better then I ever could: > http://crookedtimber.org/2011/10/10/guestpost-communications-tools-agency-and-anxiety/ > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Tapan Parikh <tapan at cs.washington.edu> > wrote: > Ive never understood Kentaros point here, or at least why its delivered with > such pessimism. > > Its strictly a glass half-full, half-empty kind of argument. Of course > technology does not achieve its effect in isolation. Of course you need all > the rest of the things Kentaro mentions. But an "amplifier of your intent" > still sounds pretty awesome to me. This is what Steve Jobs was trying to do > for us, and what we are trying (successfully or unsuccessfully) to achieve > for the poor and marginalized through ICT4D. Im not saying that computers > are the best or most appropriate technology, but the potential is there, and > that is why we are working to achieve it, and why it is still research. > > I find Joyojeet's critique much more interesting. Are computers truly > amplifiers, or are they strictly aspirational? Said another way, is high > technology perceived as an end in and of itself, or do we understand its true > machinations*, and use them for some other higher purpose - the highest being > to learn, and through the process become better people, or a better society. > I am sure everyone who has worked in ICTD has directly observed "gadget lust" > in our partners, users, and without doubt, in ourselves. > > Summarizing my point, the important question is "are u the one riding the > horse, or is the horse riding you?". The jury is still out on this for > ICT4D, as it is for the rest of the World, IMHO. > > * For the philosophy and German buffs, see Heidegger's "The Question > Concerning Technology". > > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: > rahul, > > i would encourage you to check out > http://www.kentarotoyama.org/research. i think his work on > technology as an amplifier and the ten myths of ict4d will be quite > insightful. > > yaw > > > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 18:16, Rahul Banerjee <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> > wrote: > > Yes, I agree that this is simply another hardware platform on which > > people can build stuff. It is a solution enabler, not a solution in > > itself. However, this price point means that one can deploy solutions > > for cheaper than with existing hardware. > > > > I think we all agree that *solutions* built on top of hardware > > platforms change people's lives -- cheap hardware simply opens up such > > possibilities to interested parties who want to build solutions, but > > don't have enough money for expensive hardware. > > > > I would like to emphasize this point -- the best ideas can come from > > anywhere. Once you let such a cheap device loose into the wild (so to > > speak), I'm certain that several talented people will come up with > > good ideas and implement them. What remains to be seen is how many of > > those are useful and improve people's lives significantly. > > > > -- > > Rahul > > > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Clint Tseng <cxlt at cs.washington.edu> > > wrote: > >> Yes, but your argument is centered around how the technology is better. I > >> don't think I have to point out who we're echoing when we say that > >> technology alone is not enough. We could make the Galaxy S2 or the iPhone 4 > >> cost $10 and it simply wouldn't make the kind of difference you'd hope for > >> (eg, much at all). > >> The App Store is not available because you have to pay Google licensing > >> fees > >> to put it on your device, which would have driven the cost up. > >> Touchscreens are nice, but I don't think any of this will truly matter for > >> the populations we're talking about until we see voice technology like Siri > >> develop to the point where you don't need to care that you're talking to > >> technology. At that point, perhaps it's worth revisiting the distribution > >> of > >> generic technology to remote regions and untrained users without caring > >> about what their actual needs are. For now, it's still much better to > >> actually do the footwork to figure out what people need and give them that > >> than to try to hand out or sell general purpose computing devices and hope > >> to make a difference. > >> $0.02. > >> -Clint > >> > >> On Thursday, October 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rahul Banerjee wrote: > >> > >> Against a cell phone, the tablet's screen is a compelling argument. > >> > >> However, I don't know if really poor people (who are mostly > >> illiterate) would go for a tablet over a *television* -- I've observed > >> that even people living in illegally constructed shacks next to train > >> tracks always have a DTH antenna dish sticking out from the roof. My > >> belief is that: > >> 1. TV's are dead simple to operate -- turn them on and they work. If > >> you can't navigate your magical tablet's touchscreen, you have a > >> magical paperweight. > >> 2. There's decent infrastructure in place (in India) to get a > >> direct-to-home subscription. I've been to some pretty remote places in > >> India (places that are accessible only using off-road vehicles and are > >> completely cut-off for three months during winter) and nearly all > >> these houses had dish antennas. AFAIK, 3G-based data plans aren't that > >> ubiquitous yet (you could only get them in certain cities in India > >> last time I checked -- about 2 months ago). > >> > >> The battery question is an interesting one -- I read a review which > >> stated that the battery life is two hours. I've observed in urban > >> slums that (illegally) hooking up wires to overhead electricity supply > >> cables (a dangerous practice, to be sure) is common. I'm not claiming > >> that this is the norm everywhere, but financial pressure often > >> eliminates batteries anyway :) > >> > >> I'm going to keep on harping on the "poor but intelligent/talented > >> student" angle. These are the people who'll benefit the most from such > >> a device. Imagine being able to read textbooks on this! Btw, I also > >> discovered in the review that the App Store / Marketplace is disabled, > >> which is *not cool*. Maybe they don't expect the target users to have > >> connectivity, but this severely limits the platform. There are a ton > >> of free apps out there which the users cannot get, and now custom > >> delivery platforms will have to be built for every project (I'm > >> thinking of textbooks, telemedicine, the fieldwork apps like the > >> Verbal Autopsy stuff, etc) > >> > >> I've rambled enough here. My summary would be that this is a giant > >> step forward, but the poorest of the poor (think indigent poverty) > >> won't magically lift themselves out of poverty using this one device. > >> However, it does generate lots of exciting possibilities for > >> "slightly-better-off" segments and it can be an enabling device for > >> several projects on a shoestring budget. > >> > >> -- > >> Rahul > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Fritz Meissner <fritz.meissner at > >> gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Just brainstorming a hypothetically compelling reason: consumption of > >> locally-made movies, which I'm given to understand currently happens > >> wholesale on cellphones in India. Would the move to tablet form, i.e. > >> bigger > >> screen and (one would hope) better sound, make for a massively improved > >> experience? > >> The Aakash could be a better investment than a TV / DVD player, given the > >> greater capacity and reusability of USB or SD cards compared to DVDs. Of > >> course, the TV has a bigger screen, but it doesn't run on batteries. How > >> much would a TV cost? > >> > >> Fritz > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerome White <jerome at cs.caltech.edu> > >> wrote: > >> > >> However, there is a "rural/poor" segment that could afford this: those > >> making between 5 and 10 thousand Rupees a month. In fact it's what some > >> spend on a mobile phone. However, with the mobile, there is very compelling > >> reason to make such an investment. A similarly compelling reason, from > >> their > >> perspective, to own this device isn't clear to me. > >> > >> But, at least we've got another device to help us generate publications :) > >> > >> jerome > >> > >> On 06-Oct-2011, at 4:11 PM, Fritz Meissner wrote: > >> > >> How much is $35 to the poorest of the poor? I recall an economics study > >> that paid Indian workers the equivalent of a monthly salary, I think that > >> was 50USD... 35USD is beyond cheap in the West but perhaps still not > >> affordable in that context. > >> > >> OTOH if the tablet is locally made, perhaps just the work that the > >> manufacturer provides will be beneficial. > >> > >> Fritz > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Joyojeet Pal <joyojeet at gmail.com> wrote: > >> I agree with Yaw on this -- sure, it is great that this technology is so > >> cheap, and one can argue that similar such efforts have brought up new > >> technology innovations (Netbook etc) and various other benefits, what is > >> deeply problematic is the idea that this will solve the issues of > >> development in India, and Indian minister Kapil Sibal's announcing the > >> project as being some kind of a dig out of exclusion > >> (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/india-announces-35-tablet-computer-to-help-lift-villagers-out-of-poverty/2011/10/05/gIQAPT8PNL_story.html) > >> > >> If you look at UNDP's latest HDI report on India, you may find that > >> someone should find this claim at least quixotic, given that the country > >> ranks 119th in the world for what ranks are worth. India as a state spends > >> among the lowest on education (3.6%) and healthcare (1.1%) and has an > >> income > >> inequality problem that is by all measure growing yearly, gender inequity > >> is > >> 0.748 (on a scale of the 'best' at 0.212 and 'worst' at 0.814). the average > >> Indian spends 4.4 years in formal schooling.. the list goes on and on. > >> > >> i'm not saying this is not a significant achievement, my concern is > >> tying this to development in such a way, in fact specifically in the > >> perception that this could be the state's part in providing development in > >> india. i think it hurts the cause of folks working in this space at the > >> very > >> least. > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Yaw Anokwa <yanokwa at gmail.com> wrote: > >> the hype around this tablet is terrible. > >> > >> i think it's great to have cheaper technology, but android tablets, > >> even cheap $35 android tablets, will not lift villagers out of > >> poverty. i wish it were that easy... > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 15:49, Rahul Banerjee > >> <banerjee at cs.washington.edu> wrote: > >> > >> Sorry for the spam, but I couldn't resist sharing such wonderful news: > >> > >> http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/India-announces-35-tablet-computer-for-rural-poor-2203509.php > >> > >> (Actually, the government is subsidising its price (which would be > >> closer to $50), but it's still pretty amazing that something like this > >> exists at all) > >> > >> -- > >> Rahul > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> change mailing list > >> change at change.washington.edu > >> http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > change mailing list > > change at change.washington.edu > > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > > > > _______________________________________________ > change mailing list > change at change.washington.edu > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change > > > _______________________________________________ > change mailing list > change at change.washington.edu > http://changemm.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/change -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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