An issue here is the whole "walled garden" mythos behind consumer devices.
Phones are convenient to carry but so small that keyboarding is difficult, and tightly regulated as well (at least for the connectivity aspects). Tablets have fewer constraints, but a smaller market. There are no "must have applications" or "games" that really drive sales of tablets. And for real convenience, people mostly ignore text and go with imagery. The APL character set can be seen as a step in this direction, but it's not enough of a step for most people. Thanks, -- Raul On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:43 PM, John Baker <[email protected]> wrote: > I am much amused that we are now well into "virtual keyboards" --- able to > display anything at all on the "keys" --- yet still QWERTY reigns supreme. > One day the adsurdity of this will be too much for even traditionalist to > endure. > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Björn Helgason <[email protected]> wrote: > > > APL chars are ok if you have the correct equipment etc. > > > > Unicode is supposed to solve that issue - who knows when. > > > > I have had countless problems with the APL chars in the past. > > > > There is no real need for them as far as I can tell. > > > > APL is having a lot of issues with the chars. > > > > National chars in general are having all kinds of problems - some may be > > fixed in the future with unicode. > > > > You are free to use unicode in J if you want so you can use APL chars if > > you want. > > > > You could write a translater to convert J scripts to/from APL - or > whatever > > unicode you want. > > > > I doubt anyone would pay you for it. > > > > Some people might test it but I would not expect anyone to use it. > > > > > > - > > Björn Helgason > > gsm:6985532 > > skype:gosiminn > > On 24.2.2014 19:38, "Raul Miller" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > APL characters are really nice to read, for people that are familiar > > > with them. You get a real division symbol for division (not just the > > > visual pun of %). You get a left pointing arrow for assignment (which > > > avoids all sorts of bugs and misconceptions centered around using = > > > for associating names and values). > > > > > > But there's no standard for *typing* APL characters. So now you have a > > > steeper learning curve for getting people started. > > > > > > Also, you run into issues like this: > > > http://forums.dyalog.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=619 > > > > > > Anyways, if you want APL characters, there are already really good APL > > > implementations out there, with professional support, and the desire > > > and funding to support the hacks and workarounds and education that > > > are needed for APL character support. Why not use them? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -- > > > Raul > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, PMA <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > I'd love to hear -- putting aside implementation issues, people's > > > aversion > > > > to the unfamiliar, and what is or isn't ugly -- how the list members > > > would > > > > expect adoption of APL chars to impact (enhance/ruin/...) J. > > > > > > > > > > > > Roger Hui wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I love the APL chars as much as the next guy. Some people would > argue > > > >> that > > > >> APL chars are no longer a problem, but recent experience with my > > Samsung > > > >> tablet indicates otherwise. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Raul Miller<[email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Maybe I should be doing this in a different forum? It's hard to > > > >>> anticipate if or where conversation will go. > > > >>> > > > >>> Anyways, http://www.johndcook.com/symbols/2014/02/apl/ reminded me > > to > > > >>> think about the tradeoffs involved in J's design: > > > >>> > > > >>> thru=: [ + 1 i.@+ -~ > > > >>> 10 thru 20 > > > >>> 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 > > > >>> u: 16b2336 thru 16b237a > > > >>> > ⌶⌷⌸⌹⌺⌻⌼⌽⌾⌿⍀⍁⍂⍃⍄⍅⍆⍇⍈⍉⍊⍋⍌⍍⍎⍏⍐⍑⍒⍓⍔⍕⍖⍗⍘⍙⍚⍛⍜⍝⍞⍟⍠⍡⍢⍣⍤⍥⍦⍧⍨⍩⍪⍫⍬⍭⍮⍯⍰⍱⍲⍳⍴⍵⍶⍷⍸⍹⍺ > > > >>> > > > >>> ASCII is horribly ugly, the world still has not caught up to APL's > > > >>> character set. > > > >>> > > > >>> Sometimes, retro is the right choice. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Raul > > > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> For information about J forums see > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >> > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> For information about J forums see > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > -- > John D. Baker > [email protected] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
