Hi all,

I just put up a demo of what I have been hashing around adding media to labs in 
the JHS environment. I am not sure that I will be going much further with this 
in the lab environment on Eric's suggestion of looking into sp.ijs as a way to 
provide the functionality of multiple media types. It is a bit rough around the 
edges, but does show what can be done with some J, HTML, CSS and binder twine.

http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/a-demo-of-extended-labs/

Cheers, bob

On May 30, 2014, at 4:54 AM, Björn Helgason <[email protected]> wrote:

> It might be interesting if fif would allow searches in jsoftware.
> 
> Possibly giving index to faq.
> On 29 May 2014 14:09, "Björn Helgason" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> You could do faq to answer from different databases.
>> 
>> Like:
>> 
>> 'voc' faq 6 1
>> 
>> gives info on function 6 and just rank
>> 
>> 'voc' faq 13 2
>> 
>> short description on function 13
>> 
>> 'nuvoc' faq 15 3
>> 
>> long description on function 15 from nuvoc
>> 
>> 'voc' faq 17 4
>> 
>> examples for function 17
>> 
>> and so on
>> On 28 May 2014 16:40, "Joe Bogner" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I did something along these lines here:
>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2013-October/005401.html
>>> 
>>> Not faq, but pulling in dictionary entries for symbols. It would be useful
>>> to update it for NuVoc and let a person search by name (e.g. 'dict floor')
>>> too
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Björn Helgason <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It would be interesting to have a facility in J to send requests to
>>>> jsoftware and get automatic answers.
>>>> 
>>>> Lets say the verb would be running at the user.
>>>> 
>>>> The user would type:
>>>> 
>>>> faq 1
>>>> 
>>>> and get back an answer to the question:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. What is J?
>>>> 
>>>> J is bla bla bla
>>>> and was created by bla bla bla
>>>> 
>>>> next question:
>>>> 
>>>> faq 2
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Who was Ken Iverson?
>>>> 
>>>> Ken Iversion was bla bla bla
>>>> and bla bla bla
>>>> 
>>>> faq 3
>>>> 
>>>> 3. How do you do bla bla bla
>>>> 
>>>> In order to do bla bla bla
>>>> you do bla bla bla
>>>> 
>>>> faq 99
>>>> 
>>>> 99. list of questions
>>>> 
>>>> 1. What is J?
>>>> 2. Who was Ken Iverson?
>>>> 3. How do you do bla bla bla
>>>> 4.........
>>>> 
>>>> .....
>>>> 
>>>> 99. list of faqs
>>>> 
>>>> etc
>>>> 
>>>> Could be relatively easy to set up because I guess most ingrendiences
>>> are
>>>> already there.
>>>> On 27 May 2014 17:28, "Eric Iverson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that we must keep and improve the existing labs. There is too
>>>>> much good and criitical material there. But if we have a better
>>>>> infrastructure for  new labs then the old will gradually move to it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Björn Helgason <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I do like the labs as is so using spx is a good idea but not change
>>> the
>>>>>> labs that are now.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Make new tutorial system using new features.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not eliminate existing demos and labs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can see integrated video, helps, labs, demos, tutorials and have
>>>>>> different versions for beginners and advanced but in a new added
>>>> system.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The existing labs and demos are great as is so do not change those
>>> at
>>>>> least
>>>>>> not until something better is in place.
>>>>>> On 27 May 2014 14:14, "Eric Iverson" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The labs were great in their time. Rather than recreate that wheel
>>> it
>>>>>>> might be worthwhile to step back and look at the issues in current
>>>>>>> light.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think the labs structure is too restricted. I strongly favor the
>>> JHS
>>>>>>> spx approach that lets you treat any script (or any text file) as a
>>>>>>> lab. I think this is a compelling argument. Right now the spx
>>> facility
>>>>>>> is very simple but could be easily improved. Effort here might be
>>>>>>> better than on the old lab aurthor system.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The other part of the solution (that would fit hand in glove with
>>>>>>> enhanced spx) is to take advantage of the fact the scripts are
>>> loaded
>>>>>>> (and spx managed) with J code. This means it is easy to make the
>>>>>>> source script much richer. I think html with custom tags is the
>>> way to
>>>>>>> go to have a single script that can be used to load an applicaton,
>>> run
>>>>>>> an spx lab, and to have a literate programming display. Lots of
>>> hand
>>>>>>> waving here, but a script that started with an <html> tag could be
>>>>>>> handled specially by various programs. Load would strip out all
>>> lines
>>>>>>> not in <code-load) tags. spx could have special treatment of other
>>>>>>> tags. Publish could do similar processing. And just showing the
>>> script
>>>>>>> in a browser would be useful.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lots of handwaving above, but I think this is the way to go. One
>>> nice
>>>>>>> thing is that it could be done in small steps with immediate
>>> benefits.
>>>>>>> For example the step to have load just handle the lines in
>>> <code-load>
>>>>>>> tags and to just treat the script as html for display would provide
>>>>>>> quite a few features. In fact, it might be best to just have html
>>>>>>> scripts that can be handled by load and spx. Maybe foo.ijs.html
>>>>>>> scripts.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Note that spx is not specific to JHS. It works reasonably well in
>>> Jqt
>>>>>>> or Jconsole and could the rough edges in those environments can
>>> easily
>>>>>>> be fixed with a bit of J programming. The new release of Jd uses
>>> spx
>>>>>>> and works in all front ends.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Potential lab authors are far better off to learn some html than a
>>> J
>>>>>>> specific lab authoring facility.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any interest in making the general issue of labs/literate
>>>>>>> programming/publishing the topic of a workshop at the conference in
>>>>>>> July?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 PM, robert therriault
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well, I am looking at it and I will keep everyone posted if I
>>> make
>>>> any
>>>>>>> progress, but I really won't feel bad if someone else wanted to
>>> take
>>>> it
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> (or even better join in).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am starting with the JHS system using Safari as my browser.
>>> Even
>>>>>>> though the lab .ijt files are text files which any version of J
>>> would
>>>>> read,
>>>>>>> some of the instructions to initiate events such as running video
>>> are
>>>>>>> dependent on the J environment being used, so that generalization
>>>> across
>>>>>>> the different environments may be end up being a challenge.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The first challenge is to get people to think that it is not a
>>> bad
>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Does that mean you are volunteering to do the update?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ;)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:56 PM, robert therriault <
>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hey Raul,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Developing a tool that can be used to create labs as they are
>>>>> imagined
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> is mostly an update from the previous lab author, so most of
>>> the
>>>>> heavy
>>>>>>>>>> lifting has been done. The next level is to come up with what
>>> labs
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> become; incorporating a number of communications methods that
>>>> html5
>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>> available with an interface that reduces the overhead to lab
>>>>> creation.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> would like to say it is the interface design that I find most
>>>>>>> difficult,
>>>>>>>>>> but really the biggest challenge is personal time management.
>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Raul Miller <
>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Keep in mind that my "don't like video" is limited - I *would*
>>>>> like it
>>>>>>>>>>> under a variety of circumstances and I would not hesitate to
>>>>>>> recommend it
>>>>>>>>>>> for some purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything. But I guess I do
>>>> avoid
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> some contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, it can't be that hard to document the data format
>>> for
>>>>> labs.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:36 PM, robert therriault <
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Raul,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) One of the advantages of scripted video is that there is a
>>>>> written
>>>>>>>>>>>> artefact that could be included for search purposes. Similar
>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> that SVG includes its text as searchable content as opposed
>>> to
>>>>>>> bitmaps
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> words on canvas.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) This is a little trickier because it implicitly dives
>>> through
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> levels that we interact with video. The pixelmator video
>>> example
>>>>> was
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> that I was looking at as a viewer (because it is pretty) and
>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>> creator (by the way it conveyed information so efficiently).
>>> The
>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> are talking about is the level of the tool to create such a
>>>> video
>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason that J doesn't have such a tool is probably
>>> because
>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>> of UI is really difficult to get right and even when you do,
>>> the
>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>> turn on you, such as when Apple introduced the new version of
>>>>> Final
>>>>>>> Cut
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pro. Also, there may not be reasons for J to manipulate
>>> video in
>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> when there are other tools already available, but you already
>>>>>>> referred
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> this when you talked of bringing other tools such as Blender.
>>>>>>>>>> Currently, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am taking a hard look at the labs feature in J to provide
>>> this
>>>>> type
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> glue. Amazingly, we lack a creation tool for labs in the
>>> newer
>>>>>>> versions
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> J and if there were a tool that would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> worth building, I think that would be it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) In signing off (and even though you don't like video) I
>>> just
>>>>>>> opened a
>>>>>>>>>>>> link to this orientation/welcoming tutorial produced by
>>>>>>>>>> processing.orgthat also has content that involves the visual
>>>> aspects
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> power of
>>>>>>>>>>>> computer programming. Might be worth a look.
>>>>>>>>>> http://hello.processing.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Raul Miller <
>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts looking at that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) I personally prefer reading over video. Video is really
>>>> hard
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>> using search, and it's slow to watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) Why don't I know how to generate a UI like that, using
>>> J?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course anything worth doing takes time, and I have to
>>> allow
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But video is particularly frustrating for me, also because I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to manipulate the raw underlying data in J.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 1:23 PM, robert therriault <
>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Raul,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another (albeit market driven) approach is the short video
>>>>>>> tutorial to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> describe use of a specific tooll. These short tutorials for
>>>> the
>>>>>>> use of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pixelmator software are good because they have actually
>>>> provided
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precise instruction on use of a tool in about a minute. The
>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> required to create these tutorials is even more than
>>> writing,
>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> includes video production, but the result is a just in time
>>>>>>> tutorial
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not feel too pedantic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> http://www.pixelmator.com/tutorials/featured/transform-tool/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Raul Miller <
>>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Writing decent tutorial documentation can be hard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's an example of how one guy who has written a fair
>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation has approached things:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://www.xess.com/static/media/appnotes/FpgasNowWhatBook.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'm not all that fond of pdf - I personally
>>>> prefer
>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly with the underlying medium. But everybody has to
>>>> make
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
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