Run JHS and check menu link|jhelp|sp (just a pointer to do sphelp).

   sphelp NB. noun that documents sp stuff

The idea of managed script execution is an alternative to labs. But
having a script as an html document with tags makes it very easy to
include material in a script that is not just code that could present
differently in the different front ends.


On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:33 PM, robert therriault
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks Eric,
>
> I had not thought about spx as a replacement to the lab framework, in fact I 
> have not ventured into that part of the framework at all (aside from seeing 
> it as part of the ios when the ipad version came out). What would you 
> recommend as the quickest way to come up to speed on this? I've done a quick 
> look at the sp.ijs script but haven't found anything in the wiki. Your ideas 
> certainly give me some direction (handwaving ideas are the best for that!).
>
> The areas that I was working on were within the demo examples and 
> specifically demo9 (the multiframe demo) since it is possible to access video 
> in the frames by specifying the src as the video url. This allows video 
> instruction in one window while the J lab can proceed next to it in the ijx 
> window, while other windows can be used for navigation. It sounds as if the 
> spx provides a more general approach to this. I'll take a look at what you 
> have done with jd to see what I can see (expect more questions :-) )
>
> I would be interested in participating in a lab workshop at the conference.
>
> Cheers, bob
>
> On May 27, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Eric Iverson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The labs were great in their time. Rather than recreate that wheel it
>> might be worthwhile to step back and look at the issues in current
>> light.
>>
>> I think the labs structure is too restricted. I strongly favor the JHS
>> spx approach that lets you treat any script (or any text file) as a
>> lab. I think this is a compelling argument. Right now the spx facility
>> is very simple but could be easily improved. Effort here might be
>> better than on the old lab aurthor system.
>>
>> The other part of the solution (that would fit hand in glove with
>> enhanced spx) is to take advantage of the fact the scripts are loaded
>> (and spx managed) with J code. This means it is easy to make the
>> source script much richer. I think html with custom tags is the way to
>> go to have a single script that can be used to load an applicaton, run
>> an spx lab, and to have a literate programming display. Lots of hand
>> waving here, but a script that started with an <html> tag could be
>> handled specially by various programs. Load would strip out all lines
>> not in <code-load) tags. spx could have special treatment of other
>> tags. Publish could do similar processing. And just showing the script
>> in a browser would be useful.
>>
>> Lots of handwaving above, but I think this is the way to go. One nice
>> thing is that it could be done in small steps with immediate benefits.
>> For example the step to have load just handle the lines in <code-load>
>> tags and to just treat the script as html for display would provide
>> quite a few features. In fact, it might be best to just have html
>> scripts that can be handled by load and spx. Maybe foo.ijs.html
>> scripts.
>>
>> Note that spx is not specific to JHS. It works reasonably well in Jqt
>> or Jconsole and could the rough edges in those environments can easily
>> be fixed with a bit of J programming. The new release of Jd uses spx
>> and works in all front ends.
>>
>> Potential lab authors are far better off to learn some html than a J
>> specific lab authoring facility.
>>
>> Any interest in making the general issue of labs/literate
>> programming/publishing the topic of a workshop at the conference in
>> July?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 PM, robert therriault
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Well, I am looking at it and I will keep everyone posted if I make any 
>>> progress, but I really won't feel bad if someone else wanted to take it on 
>>> (or even better join in).
>>>
>>> I am starting with the JHS system using Safari as my browser. Even though 
>>> the lab .ijt files are text files which any version of J would read, some 
>>> of the instructions to initiate events such as running video are dependent 
>>> on the J environment being used, so that generalization across the 
>>> different environments may be end up being a challenge.
>>>
>>> The first challenge is to get people to think that it is not a bad idea. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers, bob
>>>
>>> On May 26, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does that mean you are volunteering to do the update?
>>>>
>>>> ;)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:56 PM, robert therriault 
>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Raul,
>>>>>
>>>>> Developing a tool that can be used to create labs as they are imagined now
>>>>> is mostly an update from the previous lab author, so most of the heavy
>>>>> lifting has been done. The next level is to come up with what labs might
>>>>> become; incorporating a number of communications methods that html5 makes
>>>>> available with an interface that reduces the overhead to lab creation. I
>>>>> would like to say it is the interface design that I find most difficult,
>>>>> but really the biggest challenge is personal time management. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep in mind that my "don't like video" is limited - I *would* like it
>>>>>> under a variety of circumstances and I would not hesitate to recommend it
>>>>>> for some purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything. But I guess I do avoid it in
>>>>>> some contexts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, it can't be that hard to document the data format for labs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:36 PM, robert therriault <
>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Raul,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) One of the advantages of scripted video is that there is a written
>>>>>>> artefact that could be included for search purposes. Similar to the way
>>>>>>> that SVG includes its text as searchable content as opposed to bitmaps
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> words on canvas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) This is a little trickier because it implicitly dives through the
>>>>>>> levels that we interact with video. The pixelmator video example was one
>>>>>>> that I was looking at as a viewer (because it is pretty) and as a
>>>>> content
>>>>>>> creator (by the way it conveyed information so efficiently). The level
>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are talking about is the level of the tool to create such a video or
>>>>> image.
>>>>>>> The reason that J doesn't have such a tool is probably because this
>>>>> level
>>>>>>> of UI is really difficult to get right and even when you do, the users
>>>>> may
>>>>>>> turn on you, such as when Apple introduced the new version of Final Cut
>>>>>>> Pro. Also, there may not be reasons for J to manipulate video in this
>>>>> way
>>>>>>> when there are other tools already available, but you already referred
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> this when you talked of bringing other tools such as Blender.
>>>>> Currently, I
>>>>>>> am taking a hard look at the labs feature in J to provide this type of
>>>>>>> glue. Amazingly, we lack a creation tool for labs in the newer versions
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> J and if there were a tool that would be
>>>>>>> worth building, I think that would be it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) In signing off (and even though you don't like video) I just opened a
>>>>>>> link to this orientation/welcoming tutorial produced by
>>>>> processing.orgthat also has content that involves the visual aspects and
>>>>> power of
>>>>>>> computer programming. Might be worth a look.
>>>>> http://hello.processing.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts looking at that:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1) I personally prefer reading over video. Video is really hard to
>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> using search, and it's slow to watch.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (2) Why don't I know how to generate a UI like that, using J?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course anything worth doing takes time, and I have to allow for
>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>> But video is particularly frustrating for me, also because I don't know
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> to manipulate the raw underlying data in J.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 1:23 PM, robert therriault <
>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Raul,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another (albeit market driven) approach is the short video tutorial to
>>>>>>>>> describe use of a specific tooll. These short tutorials for the use of
>>>>>>>>> pixelmator software are good because they have actually provided very
>>>>>>>>> precise instruction on use of a tool in about a minute. The amount of
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> required to create these tutorials is even more than writing, as it
>>>>>>>>> includes video production, but the result is a just in time tutorial
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> does not feel too pedantic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pixelmator.com/tutorials/featured/transform-tool/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Writing decent tutorial documentation can be hard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So here's an example of how one guy who has written a fair amount of
>>>>>>>>>> documentation has approached things:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.xess.com/static/media/appnotes/FpgasNowWhatBook.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'm not all that fond of pdf - I personally prefer
>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> directly with the underlying medium. But everybody has to make their
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>> choices.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>>>
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