Raul Miller wrote: > I think a better approach, for gathering information about new user > issues, would involve observing lots of new users and asking them > questions, when they encounter difficulties.
As an elementary school teacher many years ago and as a relatively new J user, I agree with you, Raul. Frankly, what bothered me most when I first encountered J (and still does) is that the whole shebang is far too disorganized and "geeky" to attract a popular following. New users simply MUST be able to find information easily--in today's J environment, this is virtually impossible. Another example, the labs contain good information, but who uses (or WANTS to use) 1970's-ish "educational" display techniques? Presentation is everything if you want to attract more users. (The labs should be Powerpoint presentations or something, or some J coding that produces a similar effect.) Or is there a subconscious desire NOT to attract more people but to keep J "elite"? I am trying hard in my little part of the world to turn people on to J, but I have to do all the persuasion myself--the current J environment won't do it. I'd lose people (and I'm talking NON-mathematicians here-- in other words, liberal arts folk who might take advantage of some of the uniqueness and power of J) if I turned them loose in the J world as it currently exists without extensive preparation. Otherwise, you'd have a reversal: they'd be persuaded, all right...but to avoid J at all costs! And that's something that I DON'T want to happen. It's why I've attempted (and continue to attempt) to write some very elementary introductory materials to get non-mathematicians interested in using J to solve particular problems they have and challenges they face. The audience I have works with tables (matrices) all the time and have never realized that there are other, maybe better, ways of dealing with these than always turning to Excel. Dealing with the WHOLE array at once is a completely foreign concept to the people I'm trying to reach, but it has such power to better solve some of the situations they face. I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm just trying to lay out my case for why I feel as I do about the current state of affairs. In JChat there's currently the cooperative project to edit the "At Play With J" book. What I'd like to see is all the expert J programmers here work in a similar cooperative manner to "upgrade" the entire J *experience* to attract newcomers. For example, the Windows controls editor (as helpful as it is) is about as klutzy as klutzy can be, compared with other Windows controls editors available. Or another example: compared with the Visual Basic 6.0 IDE (the high point of MS BASIC), the J environment is "amateurish". How can you get people interested in programming to take a serious look? I really don't want to sound negative, because I'm NOT. However, there's an awful lot about the J environment that could be overhauled for improvement. I know the kinds of things that I'd like to see improved, but I'm nowhere near good enough with J to even begin to create those improvements. But many of you are... Harvey ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
