Hi Alex, I absolutely agree with you for animations used for live/interactive presentations. A voice-over should be provided by the presenter in the appropriate language and the appropriate level for the audience.
By the way, I tried to export my Keynote to Powerpoint '08 for Mac and the transparency effects and timing of the application change significantly. So for now, presenters may either use the animations (perhaps embedded in a Powerpoint?) or would require access to Keynote on a Mac to make use of the current creations. Cheers, bob On -Feb23-2010, at -Feb23-20107:17 AM, Alex Rufon wrote: > Thinking about this some more ... I agree with Ian on not putting voice overs. > > I personally speak 4 languages (and curse in spanish) but whenever giving > talks or training in the office I usually speak in "taglish" > (Filipino/Tagalog+English). I am aware of members of the J community who's > English is just a 2nd language (in my case its 4th) and putting english text > or voice-over would add in unnecessary complications/work. It is the same > case with background music. I've attended seminars/trainings/talks in > different countries and one of the things you would notice is the cultural > difference in the background music. ;) > > Since I talk way too much during trainings ... it should be easy to do real > time voice-over/explanations while a silent PPT/video is runnings. :P > > > On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:24 PM, bob therriault wrote: > >> Hi Ian, >> >> I agree completely with you that 'silence is golden' for the reference >> animations. It could be a deterrent to use if the computer gave out an audio >> 'alert' every time you used an animated refeerence. >> >> For use in tutorials, I do see a real benefit to voice over. If you were to >> try to teach J without talking, there would either be much more time >> involved in giving the lesson or preparing it. I guess my proof will be when >> I actually getting around to creating a tutorial and see what the reaction >> is like, but I think I would be working much harder if you took away the >> soundtrack. >> >> Of course, when silent films are done by geniuses the results can be >> brilliant. Chaplin worked on 'The Blind Girl' scene in 'City Lights' for >> months and used 342 takes just to convey a complex idea of a blind girl >> mistaking the tramp for a rich man. video: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-7gvrSsAdc . >> >> Cheers, bob >> >> On -Feb23-2010, at -Feb23-20105:33 AM, Ian Clark wrote: >> >>> One thing I do already have a strong opinion about is voice-over. Any >>> modality is either decorative or useful, rarely both; "useful" meaning >>> it supports some necessary task. I have yet to encounter any >>> voice-over which isn't totally "deco". Besides which it irritates me >>> profoundly. (Any computer voice in any accent but my own irritates >>> me.) This is no doubt cultural, not to say age-related. I know >>> "everybody" does it, so "everybody" expects it, but HF has taught me >>> to ask if a given device serves a measurably useful purpose, no matter >>> how popular or time-honoured. >>> >>> I know a blank track sounds eerie. When my neighbour's dog stops >>> barking it sounds eerie. There's some nice free music around which >>> makes good wallpaper. Personally, when I'm coding I need silence. My >>> mind is full of my problem. When I call up reference material I don't >>> want someone chattering in my ear. If I could lie back and reach for >>> the popcorn it would be different. Is the guy saying anything which a >>> few terse subtitles couldn't convey quicker and better? >>> >>> And why have spoken or written English at all? It's going to be >>> embedded in a screen full of English text. And another thing: no >>> English verbiage means no need for translation, and your anime has >>> wider appeal. >>> >>> We should also be on our guard against judging an offering on how it >>> appeals to us personally. Which is why I qualified my antipathy to >>> voice-over. The intended audience is J novices. With 12 weeks' serious >>> J coding experience behind me I've already forgotten what it's like to >>> be a novice. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:46 AM, bob therriault <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> There has been discussion about how to incorporate audio into the >>>> animations. For reference use, which is more of a 'just in time' training >>>> aide, the sound would probably be distracting (although not as eerie as >>>> silence... bwahahahah). For tutorial styles, many have suggested a music >>>> bed, although I'm leaning towards sound effects to accompany the different >>>> animations along with voice-over. That is a ways in the future though, as >>>> I often have more to do than I have time to do it. >>>> >>>> In the mean time, feel free to use what I've put up, and I appreciate any >>>> feedback on how the animations worked or can be improved. >>>> >>>> Cheers, bob >>>> >>>> On -Feb22-2010, at -Feb22-20104:45 PM, Alex Rufon wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Bob, >>>>> >>>>> I actually liked the latest video with the J session at the left and the >>>>> explanation on the right. >>>>> >>>>> I'm quite surprised with what you did with Keynote and I'm intrigued if I >>>>> can do it with Powerpoint 2007. >>>>> >>>>> Actually, my boss asked me again to give a J training (using a lot of >>>>> primitives) to our developers the whole month of March. I was a pleasant >>>>> surprise on how you explained scalar and vector operations ... I never >>>>> explained it that way and I believe it is much clearer (I'm going to >>>>> steal your idea ... bwahahahahahaha) and conveys the message across much >>>>> better than how I do it. >>>>> >>>>> On an irrelevant note, while watching the video (while using a noise >>>>> canceling headphones) it felt eerie with no sound. I guess if I'm using >>>>> it, I'll just provide the real time voice over. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for posting the video. >>>>> >>>>> r/Alex >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:49 AM, bob therriault wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alex (I've enjoyed your posts for years), >>>>>> >>>>>> I was thinking this might be a useful aid for the NuVoc vocabulary pages >>>>>> being developed on the Jwiki as a reference. They are in a keynote (Mac >>>>>> powerpoint) format originally, so they could be used in a variety of >>>>>> ways. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the best way to extend to teaching would be using the tutorials >>>>>> in J, where the animations (with audio explanation) could be combined >>>>>> with an interactive session, so the learner can try out the concepts as >>>>>> they are explained. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the feedback, bob >>>>>> >>>>>> On -Feb22-2010, at -Feb22-20103:46 PM, Alex Rufon wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Bob, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you going to use this to teach? At what age group? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Although it does get the message across but I'm looking for the J >>>>>>> session. ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> r/Alex >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Brian Schott >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:14 AM >>>>>>> To: Chat forum >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Jchat] New reference animation for x + y in NuVoc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The link below may be helpful. >>>>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/EditingGuidelines/Embedding >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The first example is not appealing to me because it is more about >>>>>>> addition for elementary school than for J users, imo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead, I would suggest adding a scalar and a vector and the reverse. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The graphics are nice and clear and your animation will be informative. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> (B=) >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
