In any well-considered educational endeavor, the program will consist of two
kinds of knowledge. One kind is the obvious -- you want the students to
achieve mastery. Even after the classes/training are over, and they've been
away from it in their work for some time, you want them to *know* that
material.
For other knowledge the goal is familiarity, not mastery. Down the road, you
don't necessarily expect them to remember all the details, but you do want
them to recognize the material when they run into it, have a clue what it's
about, know where to look for the information they need to work with it, and
be confident they can use the information under those circumstances because,
"They learned it once, they'll be able to refresh/deepen their knowledge
when necessary and be productive."
Whether by design or accident (most likely the test is just old), I think
the CCIE written will help candidates achieve familiarity with a lot of
material they "may well run into at some point," whereas the lab, which
motivates much more studying, will help them achieve mastery of the most
important topics.
I'm still chewing on my CCNP, but in my job in a large NOC, we had one very
large network (Fortune 50) running DEC, IS-IS and a few X.25 lines, several
banking customers who used SDLC/DLSW for their ATM machines, some Appletalk,
and some other odd stuff. IMHO, it's not a bad idea at all that Cisco
guarantees that CCIE's have been exposed to all of this at least once.
FWIW,
doctorcisco
>From: "Chuck Larrieu"
>Reply-To: "Chuck Larrieu"
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:10:27 -0400
>
>This of course presumes it is in Cisco's interest to make the test
>"relevant".
>
>Reminds a bit of the arguments we used to make in college and grad school.
>My major is X, so why should I be required to take classes in Y? The answer
>is BECAUSE! :->
>
>Right or wrong, relevant or not, the fact is that if you want the reward,
>then part of the requirement is to put up with the crap.
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
>g_study
>Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:19 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
>
>Mr.Bad Attitude,
>
> I never said the lab was outdated. I have never used web based utilities
>to
>configure routers. All I said was the written test was outdated. They need
>to update it. I didn't say make it easier. I asked why they still test us
>on
>outdated technologies. I would rather spend my time studying BGP then how
>to
>read a RIF.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Louie Belt"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:17 PM
>Subject: RE: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
>
>
> > And a calculator can do math for you, but would you substitute your
> > knowledge of math for a dependancy on a calculator? If all you want to
>do
> > is follow the suggestions of a sniffer, then do so. If you want to
>learn
> > networking then invest the time to undertand what it is the sniffer is
> > telling you. I assume from your comments you would also prefer to use
>the
> > web based configuration utilities for switches and routers - that way
>you
> > don't have to know the syntax. I guess the CCIE lab is outdated as
>well.
> >
> > Louie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Brian
> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:30 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
> >
> >
> > exactly, I was just talking about this with a study partner, and the
> > obsession with bits in the header is really deep here, and the canonical
> > inversion stuff makes my brain hurt. I would think most packet sniffers
> > would do this for you.
> >
> > Brian "Sonic" Whalen
> > Success = Preparation + Opportunity
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote:
> >
> > > At 04:59 PM 5/24/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >But do I really need to know how to read a RIF? How often do you read
>a
> > RIF?
> > >
> > > I don't think so. That's one of the silliest topics, in my opinion. If
>you
> > > had to read a RIF you would use a protocol analyzer that would decode
>it
> > > for you.
> > >
> > > >I know some day you could run into a situation where you really need
>to
> > know
> > > >how to read a RIF or know how to configure Apollo, Banyan VINES or
>XNS.
>I
> > > >guess I am just frustrated with the trivial parts of this test.
> > > >
> > > >Does anyone else out there feel this way about this test?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >. ----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz"
> > > >To:
> > > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:49 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Just from a learning standpoint, I agree the lab and written
>should
> > > > > coincide. Perhaps a desktop/legacy specialization might be in
>order.
> > > > >
> > > > > But there's a finite amount that people can learn and demonstrate,
> > > > > and frankly, I'd rather see somewhat more depth in IP, and also
>MPLS,
> > > > > than having lots and lots of depth yet being somewhat superficial
>in
> > > > > the things you need to know about really big networks. Perhaps my
> > > > > design bias is showing.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do wonder about X.25. There's an old Army saying that you never
> > > > > need a pistol until you need one very, very much. I still believe
> > > > > X.25 can be an extremely useful niche protocol.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >I agree you should know how to do that stuff but I think the
>written
> > and
> > > >the
> > > > > >lab should coincide.
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Darren Crawford"
> > > > > >To:
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:04 PM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Because as a CCIE you should know how to do this stuff. ;^)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> D.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> At 01:04 PM 05/24/2001 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > >> >The following have been removed from the lab. Why haven't the
> > been
> > > > > >removed
> > > > > >> >from the CCIE written?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >LAT, DECnet, Apollo, Banyan VINES, ISO CLNS, XNS, ATM LANE,
>and
> > > X.25.
> > > > > >> >Effective February 1, 2001, Appletalk will also be removed
>from
> > the
> > > >lab
> > > > > >exam
> > > > > > > >content.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x$:0`0:$x,,,,x
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Darren S. Crawford
> > > > > >> Network Systems Consultant
> > > > > >> Lucent Technologies - Sacramento
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >> page via email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >> pager: 800-467-1467
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
>x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x$:0`0:$x,,,,x
> > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________
> > >
> > > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > > http://www.priscilla.com
> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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