Both Joann & Julie have very valid points. I'm repeating myself, but this
is a good example...3 sisters, same litter, one developed MVD at around 4,
the other two never did, all lived to 12/12.5, MVD died in her sleep, one
died of kidney failure and the last died of a cerebral stroke. All were
healthy Cavaliers right up to the end. By the way, their mother is still
alive at 15.75 years, heart clear at 13.5, grade 1 at 14.5. Sad to say she
is senile. My uncle was cured of cancer only to go senile, lived in a
nursing home for 7 years that way. If given the choice, I'm sure he would
have preferred dying of cancer and skipping the rest.
Sharon Gamboni
Taron Cavaliers
Pennsylvania, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Sturman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] health checks required to register?
> Once again, I have to applaud JoAnn
> MVD is a strange disease...many cardiologists think it is more than one
> disease. Certainly there must be a difference between a cavalier who has a
> murmur, regardless of grade, and lives to be 13-14 and dies of something
> else and a cavalier who is clear to 5 3/4and drops dead at 6. The problem
> with these later onset diseases is that you can't wait until a dog is 10
to
> breed it so you breed your clear 3-4 year old and it develops something
the
> following year. You therefore, with all good intentions, bred those bad
> genes. I have spoken to geneticists and specialist in almost everything.
> Believe me, we dog breeders talk a good line but we know relatively
nothing
> about real genetics and the inheritance of most diseases. Forget rules and
> let's work on being the most ethical and honest breeders we can be.
> Personally, I test eyes, hearts, hips, patellas, everything there is to
> test and then I consider the whole dog and try to breed it well. I have
> bred from dogs with murmurs and have been totally open about it. That is
> the key in my opinion....honesty. If everyone can make an informed choice,
> then we have done our best.
> You must all know I publish the Julie Browns Directory to
> Pedigrees for Labrador retrievers as well as Cavaliers. I have been doing
> Labrador books for 31 editions, now working on the 32nd. I have typed
> literally thousands of pedigrees and health test results and can report
> this exception to a "rule"
> There was a famous Labrador who was sound at 18 months but was
> considered dysplastic by OFA at 2. By that time, on the basis of his good
> preliminary xrays, he had been bred many many times. This "dysplastic" dog
> contributed much to the breed including the HIGHEST percentage of OFA
> excellent offspring of any other dog in my book. Does this mean I advocate
> breeding dysplastic dogs? NOT AT ALL. But it does mean we need to get less
> hysterical, more realistic, more open and more honest. Ethics can not be
> legislated but we can all attempt to stop pointing fingers and making
rules
> for everybody else. If we all take responsibility for our own breedings
and
> do the very best we can, many of these discussions will become
unneccessary.
> Julie
>
> At 09:21 PM 9/1/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Well thought out post with reasonable ideas.
> >So..where do I find the rules?
> >Of course I do eye, heart etc test.
> >Most of the folks that I hear sounding off about these problem simply
don't
> >know what they are talking about...and some that do know the truth of it
> >don't tell it. Or to be rude..they lie.
> >Just because a cavalier (can't speak for other breeds) tests clear at 2
or
> >5..it does not mean that that very same Cavalier won't develop MVD the
> >day after it turns 5 and be dead by 6.
> >On the other hand..and listen up this happens a lot..anyone who actually
> >does follow up on pet buyers can attest to this...
> >Little Millie develops MVD at 4 and here she is 13..same old problem, no
> >meds, feels fine (for 13)..and in a year or so she dies of liver failure
or
> >something else related to old age.
> >I, personally, would rather buy a pup from a bitch that had developed a
> >murmur at 2 after having had a litter and then goes on to live to a ripe
old
> >age... So????
> >After 25+ years in this breed I find it very confusing to know just what
to
> >do, terribly heart breaking to lose a dog or even to hear of another dog
> >that has died of MVD. And then... utterly sickening to be accused of not
> >testing or to hear of some one else accused of not testing by someone
who
> >doesn't have a clue...someone who has possibly read a book or gotten on a
> >list or just knows how right they are and how wrong everyone else is....
> >Jo Ann Carvill
> >BJ Cavaliers
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >www.bjcavaliers.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Kathy Yonkers wrote:
> > > > In any system...ask questions!!! An example of a guestion is..."how
many
> > > retinal folds can be present and
> > > > still be identified as cleared for breeding within a system".
> >
> > > From: "John P. Garrison aka Michael Allen
> > > Yes, agreed. It seems (in Finland) that the problems are the breed
> >specific
> > > inherited problems that turn up the most often. Retinal folds are not
> > > considered problematic in Am. Cockers, they do not cause blindness as
it
> > > does in Lhasas (so I am told by the opthalmoligists). We have HC or
> > > hereditary cataract and hip dysplasia (as well as bad thyroids, poor
> >immune
> > > systems as the 2 are linked). There is a proposal up for parent club
> > > consideration to accept Futurity nominations only from parents with
clear
> > > eyes and hips. I feel this is a good thing, but of course, beauty is
in
> >the
> > > eye of the beholder and so one may nominate one's litter out of two
ugly,
> > > poor type, slip stifled, pointy headed, hump backed, short legged pets
> >with
> > > a like pedigree that bite everyone. One must have CERF'd eyes to
nominate
> > > Whippet litters. I personally am in favor or doing everything I can to
> > > insure a healthy and winning litter, but unfortunately, rules do not
make
> > > good litters, clever breeders do. Merely food for thought, not
intended to
> > > be argumentative. I will play by the rules, whether or not I agree as
the
> > > intent is good. Michael
> > >
> >
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