Oh don't worry about that. I am not taking this personally, nor meaning anything I say personally. This is strictly a discussion and I recognize it as such. Now, if you start telling that *I* am a bitch with a roached back and a smudge...now that is an entirely different matter. Myra
>From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious >Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:38:28 -0000 > >Myra >I was in no way decrying your group four. What I was trying to get across >is >that as you progress through the show - each level is a different >competition - all equally important in their own way and each should give >pleasure. >Personally I get more pleasure from winning against my peers in the breed >classes at least that in some ways shows that my stock is recognisable for >what it is supposed to be! VBG >As I said at the outset -group level I think is a lottery dependant on the >knowledge and personal preference of the judge - BIS even more so! > >Annette >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 2:23 AM >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > I have read all of the posts about this subject, but I still stick with >my > > original comment. To me it is more meaningful to win at a group level >than > > to win in the classes. In other words, folks.....a group four placement > > means more to me than if my dog won it's puppy class. Gee whiz. Go >figure. > > Silly me. Myra > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > >Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0000 > > > > > >I know Myra, been there - done that several times over the years, but > > >still > > >I say that you are only competing against the other best of breeds of >the > > >day presumably of similar quality although that can be debatable also > > >sometimes.VBG > > > > > >Annette > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:22 AM > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > To begin with Annette, if you are competing in the toy group ring, >you > > >have > > > > already beaten the 30 cavaliers, including the six month old roached > > >backed, > > > > cowhocked bitch puppy with a straight shoulder. When you go into >the > > >Toy > > > > Group Ring, you are competing against other dogs who have Best of >Breed > > >that > > > > day, not the winners of the classes. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0000 > > > > > > > > > >VBG correction Myra you are only competing against the winners of >the > > > > >classes - i.e. one from each breed. I forget how many there are in >the > > >Toy > > > > >group in the US but lets say 20 - so you have a twenty to one >chance >in > > >the > > > > >group against 30 to one in the breed of taking BOB > > > > > > > > > >Annette > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:32 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annette, I agree with you. But....I wasn't talking about >specialty > > > > >shows. > > > > > > I was talking about AKC shows, and the number is never anywhere >near > > >as > > > > > > large. A good sized AKC show here may have 30 cavaliers entered >and > > > > >that > > > > >is > > > > > > the total for all classes and includes both genders. That is >why >I > > >said > > > > > > that a class win is not as meaningful as the breed win which is > > >followed > > > > >by > > > > > > being shown in the toy group ring. The class win, which you may > > >have > > > > >won > > > > >by > > > > > > competing against 4-5 cavaliers is not as meaningful as a win in >the > > > > >group > > > > > > ring where you have essentially competed against several hundred > > >other > > > > >toy > > > > > > dogs. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:55:43 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sorry Myra I disagree! VBG It's at breed level the real >competition > > >is > > > > >- > > > > >if > > > > > > >you beat a couple of hundred others of the same breed to me >that >is > > >far > > > > > > >better than beating one of every other breed in the Toy group. > > >There > > >it > > > > > > >boils down very much to the knowledge of the judge and at the >end > > >of > > > > >the > > > > > > >day > > > > > > >his/her personal preference - nothing to do with structure or > > >movement > > > > >- > > > > > > >there are other breeds that have exactly the same problems or > > >similar > > > > >at > > > > > > >any > > > > > > >rate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Annette > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:57 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, everybody knows I am an idiot, and there are many >things > > >that > > > > >I > > > > > > >don't > > > > > > > > know. However, this is something to ponder. The real >"showing" > > > > >isn't > > > > > > >done > > > > > > > > at a class level. It is done at a group level. For too >many > > >years, > > > > > > > > cavaliers were judged in sort of a vacumn because they were > > >judged > > > > >only > > > > > > > > against each other. It was almost like 'just go for the >pretty > > >head > > > > > > >because > > > > > > > > all the rear ends are so bad.' So, they didn't have to >develop > > >that > > > > > > >kind > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > structure that they needed to compete with a poodle, for > > >instance. > > > > >It > > > > > > >is > > > > > > > > important to remember that they are dogs. They need to be >built > > > > >like > > > > >a > > > > > > >dog. > > > > > > > > They need to move like a well-built dog. Now for the last > > >several > > > > > > >years, > > > > > > > > they have had to compete against other toy dogs in the group > > >ring. > > > > > > >Sure, > > > > > > >we > > > > > > > > see dogs in the ring that shouldn't be there. I've probably > > >shown > > >a > > > > > > >couple > > > > > > > > myself. I probably will again in the future just because of > > > > >ignorance > > > > > > >or > > > > > > > > just because I feel like doing it. However.....those dogs >will > > >not > > > > >ever > > > > > > > > compete in a group ring. They will take their little ribbon > > >home > > > > >and > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > may even make up their championship. They will not, however > > >succeed > > > > >in > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > group ring. Also....if a dog places in group, you can no >longer > > >use > > > > >the > > > > > > > > excuse that it won because it was professionally handled. >The > > >huge > > > > > > >majority > > > > > > > > of dogs in the group ring are professionally handled. Not > > > > >all....but > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > majority. I'm not sure exactly what motivates me to show >my > > >dogs. > > > > >I > > > > > > >know > > > > > > > > for sure it isn't greed. I guess it could be ego. The >feeling > > >I > > > > >get > > > > > > >when > > > > > > > > one of my dogs wins in group, or Best Puppy in show or >something > > > > >like > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > is the same feeling I used to get when my children performed >at > > >a > > > > >piano > > > > > > > > recital or something. I just feel proud of them, and I feel > > >just > > >a > > > > > > >little > > > > > > > > bit like bragging on them. Certainly not money motivated >and > > >not > > > > >even > > > > > > > > particularly fun. When my dog is in the show ring, I am >very > > > > >stressed > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > it. I get very nervous. I'm so afraid he will make a >mistake. > > > > >Just > > > > > > > > exactly like it was at the piano recital. So, is that Ego? >I > > >don't > > > > > > > > honestly know. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > > >email: > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > > > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its >original > > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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