I have read all of the posts about this subject, but I still stick with my original comment. To me it is more meaningful to win at a group level than to win in the classes. In other words, folks.....a group four placement means more to me than if my dog won it's puppy class. Gee whiz. Go figure. Silly me. Myra
>From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious >Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0000 > >I know Myra, been there - done that several times over the years, but >still >I say that you are only competing against the other best of breeds of the >day presumably of similar quality although that can be debatable also >sometimes.VBG > >Annette >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:22 AM >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > To begin with Annette, if you are competing in the toy group ring, you >have > > already beaten the 30 cavaliers, including the six month old roached >backed, > > cowhocked bitch puppy with a straight shoulder. When you go into the >Toy > > Group Ring, you are competing against other dogs who have Best of Breed >that > > day, not the winners of the classes. Myra > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0000 > > > > > >VBG correction Myra you are only competing against the winners of the > > >classes - i.e. one from each breed. I forget how many there are in the >Toy > > >group in the US but lets say 20 - so you have a twenty to one chance in >the > > >group against 30 to one in the breed of taking BOB > > > > > >Annette > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:32 PM > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > Annette, I agree with you. But....I wasn't talking about specialty > > >shows. > > > > I was talking about AKC shows, and the number is never anywhere near >as > > > > large. A good sized AKC show here may have 30 cavaliers entered and > > >that > > >is > > > > the total for all classes and includes both genders. That is why I >said > > > > that a class win is not as meaningful as the breed win which is >followed > > >by > > > > being shown in the toy group ring. The class win, which you may >have > > >won > > >by > > > > competing against 4-5 cavaliers is not as meaningful as a win in the > > >group > > > > ring where you have essentially competed against several hundred >other > > >toy > > > > dogs. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:55:43 -0000 > > > > > > > > > >Sorry Myra I disagree! VBG It's at breed level the real competition >is > > >- > > >if > > > > >you beat a couple of hundred others of the same breed to me that is >far > > > > >better than beating one of every other breed in the Toy group. >There >it > > > > >boils down very much to the knowledge of the judge and at the end >of > > >the > > > > >day > > > > >his/her personal preference - nothing to do with structure or >movement > > >- > > > > >there are other breeds that have exactly the same problems or >similar > > >at > > > > >any > > > > >rate. > > > > > > > > > >Annette > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:57 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, everybody knows I am an idiot, and there are many things >that > > >I > > > > >don't > > > > > > know. However, this is something to ponder. The real "showing" > > >isn't > > > > >done > > > > > > at a class level. It is done at a group level. For too many >years, > > > > > > cavaliers were judged in sort of a vacumn because they were >judged > > >only > > > > > > against each other. It was almost like 'just go for the pretty >head > > > > >because > > > > > > all the rear ends are so bad.' So, they didn't have to develop >that > > > > >kind > > > > >of > > > > > > structure that they needed to compete with a poodle, for >instance. > > >It > > > > >is > > > > > > important to remember that they are dogs. They need to be built > > >like > > >a > > > > >dog. > > > > > > They need to move like a well-built dog. Now for the last >several > > > > >years, > > > > > > they have had to compete against other toy dogs in the group >ring. > > > > >Sure, > > > > >we > > > > > > see dogs in the ring that shouldn't be there. I've probably >shown >a > > > > >couple > > > > > > myself. I probably will again in the future just because of > > >ignorance > > > > >or > > > > > > just because I feel like doing it. However.....those dogs will >not > > >ever > > > > > > compete in a group ring. They will take their little ribbon >home > > >and > > > > >they > > > > > > may even make up their championship. They will not, however >succeed > > >in > > > > >the > > > > > > group ring. Also....if a dog places in group, you can no longer >use > > >the > > > > > > excuse that it won because it was professionally handled. The >huge > > > > >majority > > > > > > of dogs in the group ring are professionally handled. Not > > >all....but > > > > >the > > > > > > majority. I'm not sure exactly what motivates me to show my >dogs. > > >I > > > > >know > > > > > > for sure it isn't greed. I guess it could be ego. The feeling >I > > >get > > > > >when > > > > > > one of my dogs wins in group, or Best Puppy in show or something > > >like > > > > >that > > > > > > is the same feeling I used to get when my children performed at >a > > >piano > > > > > > recital or something. I just feel proud of them, and I feel >just >a > > > > >little > > > > > > bit like bragging on them. Certainly not money motivated and >not > > >even > > > > > > particularly fun. When my dog is in the show ring, I am very > > >stressed > > > > >about > > > > > > it. I get very nervous. I'm so afraid he will make a mistake. > > >Just > > > > > > exactly like it was at the piano recital. So, is that Ego? I >don't > > > > > > honestly know. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the >email: > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >========================================================= > > > > >"Magic Commands": > > > > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > >to start it up gain click here: > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > >Search the Archives... >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > Search the Archives... >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original >author. > > > > > >========================================================= > > >"Magic Commands": > > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > >to start it up gain click here: > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original >author. > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > >========================================================= >"Magic Commands": >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL >to start it up gain click here: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
