2013/7/27 Steven Degutis <sbdegu...@gmail.com>:
> Sounds like that's only a partial list.
>
> It's not a long list. And each item is implemented in at least one available
> editor. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a single editor that
> does them all. And I'd pay good money for it. That's all I'm saying this
> whole time.
>
> Btw, to answer some of your questions:
>
> * by fuzzy matching at every prompt, I don't just mean code-completions, I
> mean filenames and command names and every prompt that has some kind of
> autocompletion
hmm, got it.
> * by jump-to-file I meant that I can type in a path within my project and
> jump to that file
yeah, Eclipse already has open Ctrl+Shift+R(esource) as I said, but
unfortunately they still haven't done the fuzzy matching on the path.
It's a shame, 'cause it's probably not that hard to add on top of the
existing stuff.
Really, lots of features are there, and now the work would be to
remove the fat in the UI :-/
> * by tabs I mean a sane tab-bar
That is not really helping :-)
> * by splits I mean how vim and emacs can split panes within a single tab or
> window
Oh yeah. Eclipse has that, but it only works from the mouse AFAICT.
All in all, interesting food for thoughts, thanks for sharing your
dreamed Editor / IDE :-)
>
> -Steven
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Laurent PETIT <laurent.pe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I can't resist, it's too tempting, so ;-) :
>>
>> 2013/7/27 Steven Degutis <sbdegu...@gmail.com>:
>> > I would be willing to pay /really/ good money for an editor that has a
>> > few
>> > features:
>> >
>> > * paredit or better
>>
>> Check. Counterclockwise has a lot of paredit features. In the beta
>> version there are even slurp/barf provided thanks to a contribution by
>> Tom Hickey.
>>
>> > * proper syntax highlighting of clojure (emacs rocks at this, ST2 sucks
>> > at
>> > it)
>>
>> Check. With Counterclockwise you can highlight a lot of things. It's
>> based on the code's parse tree, so even things like #_(nested
>> [commented stuff]) are correctly marked as comments as a whole.
>>
>> > * ST2-quality fuzzy matching at every completionable prompt (emacs's
>> > ido-mode is alright but ST2's is way better)
>>
>> Check. okay cheating a little bit: it's "check" for what I see the
>> most important feature = code completion. Type cljtst and you get
>> clojure.test as the first proposal, for instance.
>>
>> > * keyboard shortcuts that dont kill my wrists/pinkies/fingers
>>
>> Check. For instance I only picked the good things about paredit.el,
>> and especially not the default emacs bindings. For instance, I've
>> bound "wrap-around" to the "(" (left paren) key for wrapping the
>> selection with parens, "[" for wrapping the selection with square
>> brackets, etc. Another example: barf forward really meaning "put this
>> stuff to the right of the form's right paren, you launch it via Ctrl+)
>> then right arrow.
>>
>> > * jump-to-symbol-definition
>>
>> Check. For Clojure files, be they in your project source folders, or
>> in your project jar dependencies. Not yet for java files. Ah, and it's
>> using repl reflection, so only works for code already loaded (pretty
>> much what emacs does, I guess?)
>>
>> > * jump-to-file
>>
>> What does that mean? Maybe it's just a special case of the above? If
>> so, then check. If not so, then there's a Ctrl+Shift+R command to
>> quickly open any Resource (aka file) in Eclipse.
>>
>> > * tabs (a la macvim)
>>
>> What do you mean? In Counterclockwise, tab is bound to the "reindent
>> line" command. And in an experimental branch that will be delivere
>> during September, there's support for automatically make the
>> subsequent lines "move", following the column's delta imposed by the
>> reindent.
>> Note that in this experimental branch, "column shifting" also happens
>> anytime you type. So whenever you decide to add e.g. spaces in front
>> of a form, all the children of the form will be shifted also, as well
>> as the following siblings of the form (and the siblings of the parent
>> form, if its tail has been shifted also, etc.)
>>
>> > * splits (a la emacs)
>>
>> What's that ? If it's paredit's split form / join form, then Check. If
>> not, then I'd be happy to learn about this feature, and steal it some
>> day if it's not already supported.
>>
>> > * magit or better (might be willing to ignore this omission though)
>>
>> Eclipse has EGit, which is based on JGit, a pure java implementation
>> of Git. Not a great fan of it (I use it mainly for the decorations it
>> places on files to show those who are modified - I generally prefer
>> gitk + git gui which are available for any platform I'm working at).
>> The standalone version of Counterclockwise comes with EGit pre-packaged.
>>
>> > * not-super-bloated UI
>>
>> Okay, we can agree that Eclipse's UI is bloated. But note that it's
>> not *that* difficult to ignore it. You can open editors without any
>> other view open, and call views via shortcut on demand. But agree that
>> this is highly perfectible, and I hope the Eclipse Team will
>> understand this some day, and make it more lightweight.
>>
>> > * themeable (dont care if it has a good theme, i can make one if need
>> > be, i
>> > just need it to be themeable)
>>
>> Check. There's a super cool plugin named "Eclipse Color Theme" which
>> provides solarized-like, etc., etc. themes for the major editors,
>> including Clojure.
>>
>> > * something like nrepl.el
>>
>> Check. Counterclockwise was the first to integrate an nrepl client,
>> thanks to Chas Emerick contributions.
>>
>> As for whether the checks are real checks or not, YMMV, as is the case
>> in agile projects wrt the definition of "Done" ;-)
>> >
>> > (where ST2 means Sublime Text 2)
>> >
>> > That's *all* I care about, nothing else matters to me. But no editor can
>> > get
>> > *all* these things right.
>> >
>> > -Steven
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 6:54 AM, Colin Fleming
>> > <colin.mailingl...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I was planning to wait a little longer before going public, but since
>> >> it's
>> >> pretty relevant to the other IntelliJ thread going on at the moment I
>> >> thought I'd jump in. For the last couple of months of happy
>> >> unemployment
>> >> I've been working on a fork of La Clojure which is now about 70%
>> >> migrated to
>> >> Clojure and significantly improved. It's a lot of work to develop a
>> >> tool
>> >> like this, and one of the options I'm considering is starting a company
>> >> to
>> >> develop it as a commercial product - JetBrains have never maintained
>> >> development of La Clojure very actively. I've been doing a little
>> >> market
>> >> research but there's really not much data around about whether there
>> >> are
>> >> enough people working with Clojure to sustain a product like that, and
>> >> also
>> >> the community is currently very focused on open source.
>> >>
>> >> One problem is that the IDE space is already fairly fractured - there's
>> >> Emacs and CCW, Clooj, Sublime Text and the promise of Light Table at
>> >> some
>> >> point, and of course the current public version of La Clojure. But
>> >> there's
>> >> still not a great option for something that's powerful but easy to use
>> >> - CCW
>> >> is probably the closest thing to this right now. However I think it's
>> >> telling that a large fraction of people in the State of Clojure 2012
>> >> survey
>> >> still identified development tools as a major pain point.
>> >>
>> >> I think that the IntelliJ platform is a fantastic base to build
>> >> something
>> >> like this on. Clojure as a language makes it pretty challenging to
>> >> develop a
>> >> lot of the great functionality that JetBrains are famous for, but I
>> >> think
>> >> there's scope to do a lot of great things. Certainly for mixed
>> >> Clojure/Java
>> >> projects it would be difficult to beat, but even for Clojure only
>> >> projects I
>> >> can imagine a lot of fantastic functionality built on their
>> >> infrastructure.
>> >> My plan would be to release a standalone IDE and a plugin for people
>> >> using
>> >> IntelliJ Ultimate for web dev, Ruby/Python or whatever. Since it's
>> >> mostly
>> >> Clojure now (and I'm migrating what's left as I get to it) there's a
>> >> real
>> >> possibility of a Clojure plugin/extension API. I envision charging
>> >> PyCharm/RubyMine type prices, say $200 for company licenses or $100 for
>> >> individual developers.
>> >>
>> >> So, I'd love to hear what people think. I'd appreciate it if we could
>> >> stay
>> >> away from the politics of open source vs proprietary - several people
>> >> have
>> >> told me privately that they'd rather use OSS and that's fine,
>> >> proprietary
>> >> isn't for everyone. What I'd like to know is if the idea is appealing
>> >> to
>> >> many people here?
>> >>
>> >> In case it's a concern for anyone, I've discussed this with JetBrains.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for any feedback,
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Colin
>> >>
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