On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:02:04 AM UTC+10, Mike Thompson wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 11:43:12 PM UTC+10, Colin Yates wrote:
> > Yes, that is a valid reduction. Specifically my register-handler,
> > which only has access to db needs to know the result of f.
> > 
> > The general principle of having my register-sub delegating to a defn
> > which is called from the register-handler is causing the pain because
> > there is actually a hierarchy of subscriptions going on here, so the
> > value of f might actually be resolving a chain of subscriptions. For a
> > simplified example:
> > 
> > (register-sub :reference-data/locations)
> > (register-sub :reference-data/active-locations .. (reaction (subscribe
> > [:reference-data/locations))))
> > (register-sub :page-1/location .. (reaction (if (following-defaults?
> > (-> db ...) @(subscribe [:reference-data/active-locations))))
> > 
> > the value of :page-1/location is of interest.
> > 
> > 
> > On 21 April 2015 at 14:27, Mike Thompson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:58:31 PM UTC+10, Colin Yates wrote:
> > >> Hi Mike - yeah, reading through I wasn't very clear. Let me try again
> > >> with a more fleshed out example:
> > >>
> > >> On the server there is a hierarchy, each node in that hierarchy may
> > >> contain some meta data for example:
> > >>  :id - the unique id of the node
> > >>  :type - indicating some semantics about that particular node
> > >>  :current? - indicating whether it is still actively used or not
> > >>
> > >> Imagine there are 5 nodes and node 4, which is a leaf is not :current?.
> > >>
> > >> On the client I have a number of projections of this data:
> > >>  - an "active" tree which prunes out all nodes that aren't :current?,
> > >> so there are 4 nodes
> > >>  - an "everything" tree which shows everything, e.g. all 5 nodes
> > >>
> > >> In addition, every node in each tree is selected and there are
> > >> multiple instances of these trees.
> > >>
> > >> On the client (on a reporting page for example, where one of these
> > >> trees are in the filter) I need to know which nodes the user has been
> > >> selected. I have a handler, which in response to some event (either
> > >> the server indicating new data is available or the user changing some
> > >> data) which needs to know which nodes have been selected.
> > >>
> > >> If the user hasn't selected anything then the 'selected nodes' should
> > >> be the default set (i.e. all of the nodes). As soon as the user
> > >> changes the selection (by deselecting a node in the first instance)
> > >> the set of selected nodes is now every node that is selected (e.g.
> > >> every node apart from the one they just selected) and that instance of
> > >> the tree is no longer tracking the defaults.
> > >>
> > >> The server is free to send new config data at any point in time. When
> > >> this happens, the default set should be updated. The non-default set
> > >> that the user has changed should also be consolidated as well, but
> > >> that is different.
> > >>
> > >> Lets say my app state looks like:
> > >>
> > >> {:page-1 {:some-active-tree {:selected-ids [] :tracking-default? true}
> > >>                 :another-active-tree {:selected-ids [] 
> > >> :tracking-default? true}
> > >>                 :some-all-tree {:selected-ids [] :tracking-default? 
> > >> true}}
> > >>
> > >> The user hasn't done anything so the selected-ids should be the
> > >> default sets (4 ids for :some-active-tree and :another-active-tree and
> > >> 5 ids for :some-all-tree). If the user were now to deselect node 2 in
> > >> :another-active-tree then app-state looks like:
> > >>
> > >> {:page-1 {:some-active-tree {:selected-ids [] :tracking-default? true}
> > >>                 :another-active-tree {:selected-ids [0 1 3]
> > >> :tracking-default? false}
> > >>                 :some-other-tree {:selected-ids [] :tracking-default? 
> > >> true}}
> > >>
> > >> If they deselect node 3 in some-other-tree:
> > >>
> > >> {:page-1 {:some-active-tree {:selected-ids [] :tracking-default? true}
> > >>                 :another-active-tree {:selected-ids [0 1 3]
> > >> :tracking-default? false}
> > >>                 :some-other-tree {:selected-ids [0 1 2 4]
> > >> :tracking-default? false}}
> > >>
> > >> Should the server now update the config hierarchy changing node 4 back
> > >> to :current? and adding another node then at the very least the
> > >> 'selected nodes' for :some-active-tree should contain the ids of all 6
> > >> nodes.  :another-active-tree and :some-other-tree should also be
> > >> informed but they might not be updated depending upon the selections
> > >> (it gets more complicated...).
> > >>
> > >> At this point it is clear that one solution is to record a delta from
> > >> the defaults, but that only works because we are talking about
> > >> booleans; there are other non-boolean use-cases unfortunately.
> > >>
> > >> Another solution is to store the sets of defaults in app-state itself
> > >> rather than have it be a subscription and then overtime it changes
> > >> update the affected parts of app-state (:some-tree and
> > >> :some-other-tree in this example).
> > >>
> > >> This would be much easier if it was just dealing with rendering data,
> > >> in which case subscriptions are a perfect fit, but the set of data
> > >> needs to be sent back to the server periodically in a handler, and
> > >> handlers can't see subscriptions.
> > >>
> > >> To be frank, if anyone is still reading, my experience tells me that
> > >> if the problem is this hard to explain and requires this much
> > >> explanation then _I_ haven't understood it properly :), so I think I
> > >> need some more hammock time is in order.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for anybody who hasn't lost the will to live yet ... :).
> > >>
> > >> On 21 April 2015 at 13:08, Mike Thompson <[email protected]> 
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 4:52:05 AM UTC+10, Colin Yates wrote:
> > >> >> Hi,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This is somewhat reframe specific, but how do people handle 
> > >> >> default-values that can change? My specific use-case is that I have a 
> > >> >> tree which can be expanded and collapsed. By default the tree should 
> > >> >> be expanded to a certain level, however, as soon as the user manually 
> > >> >> expands or collapses a node they should no longer follow the default. 
> > >> >> The data the tree is displaying can change, meaning the defaults can 
> > >> >> change over time.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I can't simply define the defaults on startup because the defaults 
> > >> >> will change over time.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> It can't be a subscription because the values need to be available in 
> > >> >> the handler.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> My current thinking is that the app-db state has a 'follow-defaults?' 
> > >> >> which is true by default but is set to false when the user explicitly 
> > >> >> changes the state (e.g. by expanding or collapsing). When the 
> > >> >> underlying hierarchy changes from the server, propagate that change 
> > >> >> to all of the parts of the app-state that are interested.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> To be explicit, imagine I have the following template for tree: 
> > >> >> {:expanded-ids [] :follow-defaults? true}. There are 6 instances of 
> > >> >> this template in the app-db  (i.e. 6 distinct UI trees). When the 
> > >> >> server informs the client that the source-data has changed it then 
> > >> >> updates each instance where follow-defaults?.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I understand the rationale as to why subscriptions can't be in the 
> > >> >> handlers but a subscription which switches on follow-defaults? seems 
> > >> >> ideal.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Maybe I could hack a UI-less component which reacts to that 
> > >> >> subscription change by directly updating the underlying db...
> > >> >>
> > >> >> What would you all do?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi Colin,
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not sure I'm clear on the problem. Here's my attempt to explain 
> > >> > back ...
> > >> >
> > >> > You have some setting (data) in your app (tree display state) which 
> > >> > can be:
> > >> >    1. in a server-supplied state (you call this "default" state?)
> > >> >    2. optionally, in user-supplied state (if present, overrides 1).
> > >> >
> > >> > Over time, new versions of 1. arrive.  If 2. exists, it always 
> > >> > overrides 1.
> > >> >
> > >> > Have I understood?
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Hmm.  I don't get the specifics, but maybe we can talk abstractly ...
> > >
> > > You have values a and b which can change over time. And you have another 
> > > value c which is a function (f) of a and b.
> > >
> > >      (f a b) => c
> > >
> > > And, a b and c are all stored in `app-db`.
> > >
> > > And then when, say, 'a' gets updated (server?  user?), you want to 
> > > (reactively) modify the value in c again.  After all, its value is a 
> > > function of a and b, and a just changed?
> > >
> > > And you are reaching for `subscribe` as a way to sorta know when to rerun 
> > > 'f' to recalculate new 'c'.
> > >
> > > Have I got it now?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike
> 
> 
> 
> We have a similar situation with showing errors or warnings, because showing 
> them or not tends to be a function of multiple pieces of other information in 
> `app-db`.
> 
> If 'this', but 'that' in set 'so-and-so', then show a warning saying "You 
> have duplicates on X".  And the values in 'this' 'that' and 'so-and-so' 
> change over time.
> 
> Going back to my abstract version of this involving 'a' 'b' 'c', our 
> situation is that 'c' is some set of warnings which should be displayed to 
> the user and 'a' & 'b' are the state which must be  analyzed in order to 
> figure out if we have warnings. 
> 
>    (f a b) -> c
> 
> So 'f' is some calculation on 'a' and 'b' to determine the value of our 
> warning value 'c'. 
> 
> Our way of doing this is to run 'f' after every change.  We use the 'enrich' 
> middleware and we put it on every handler which could effect the values of 
> 'a' or 'b'  (we actually put it on every handler, just to be sure).
> 
> So we don't even try to detect that 'a' or 'b' has changed. We just 
> recalculate 'c' every single time.  And we do it so that if the new 'c' tests 
> equal to the old 'c', it doesn't get assoc-ed into `app-db`. 
> 
> This approach collapses the problem to being almost trivial. BUT it comes at 
> the cost of re-running 'f' re-compuation each time anything changes (via 
> enrich). 
> 
> In our case, it has beautiful reduced a pretty tricky bit of dependency 
> updating.


Hmm. The penny has just dropped for me. A kind of "reverse reaction" is 
possible via middleware. 

https://gist.github.com/mike-thompson-day8/76812d5452747bc79aac

Seems so right. 

--
Mike


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