No sería necesario aprenderse JS, en proyectos como ceibo.wordpress.com se demuestra una vez más que esas barreras pueden ser superadas. Tener incluso un mejor JS podría darnos la chance de tener un mejor traductor de Smalltalk a JS.Más allá de esto, es interesante que sigan la guerra de navegadores, porque en definitiva hay que mejorar muchas cosas del lado del cliente para tener mejores aplicativos web, dado que la experiencia en GUI de más de 30 años la tiraron practicamente a la basura ...
Saludos, Hernán.- On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > Che... y volviendo al tema, como lo ven a esto para Smalltalk? > > Dan Ingalls algo debía saber cuando se puso a hacer el Smalltalk sobre JS > :-) > > Seria muy bueno poder llegar tener clientes programados en Smalltalk > que corran en el navegador, pero siempre preservando la > "distribución", serían clientes livianos. > > Y sino tendremos que aprender JS (lo cual no me convence mucho). > > Un abrazo. > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 18:45, Andres Valloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > 3.0.1... > > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Hernan Wilkinson > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Que version de firefox? Yo tengo la 3, pero según tengo entendido la 2 > tiene > >> un muy mal manejo de memoria en lo que es javascript (la 3 la mejora > pero no > >> llega a ser un gc generacional)... > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Andres Valloud < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Uso de memoria de firefox... > >>> > >>> Antes de correr: 71036k > >>> Primera corrida: 73364k, pico de 116364k, score 141. > >>> Segunda corrida (refresh): 70508k, pico de ~124000k, score 138. > >>> Tercera corrida (refresh): 69288k, pico de ~114000k, score 140. > >>> Cuarta corrida (refresh): 74096k, pico de ~116000k, score 138. > >>> > >>> Esto es con un firefox recien empezado y solo con gmail puesto. > Raro... > >>> > >>> Andres. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Hernan Wilkinson > >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > memory.... (leaks...) > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Andres Valloud > >>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> En Firefox la primera vez me dio 143, la segunda 134, la tercera 131 > y > >>> >> la cuarta 130... ?!... > >>> >> > >>> >> Andres. > >>> >> > >>> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Hernan Wilkinson > >>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> >> > Para aquellos que estén interesados en la performance habran esta > >>> >> > página > >>> >> > en > >>> >> > los distintos browsers: > >>> >> > http://code.google.com/apis/v8/run.html > >>> >> > Lo que me da a mi es: > >>> >> > Chrone (V8): 1329 > >>> >> > FireFox: 142 > >>> >> > Safari: 112 > >>> >> > Explorer: jaja, luego de preguntarme si quiero dejar corriendo el > >>> >> > script > >>> >> > porque está haciendo lento el navegador... un calomitoso: 24 > >>> >> > En fin... > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Hernan Wilkinson > >>> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Quizá me equivoqué... en > http://code.google.com/apis/v8/design.html > >>> >> >> hacen > >>> >> >> referencia a Self y Smalltalk, por fin! > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Hernan Wilkinson > >>> >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> No te entiendo por que decis que nos sabes si creerle... > >>> >> >>> Yo acabo de bajar Chrone y realmente es mucho más veloz que el > >>> >> >>> Firefox... > >>> >> >>> la interface de Gmail vuela... > >>> >> >>> Nuevamente se puede ver como Smalltalk y Self cambiaron la > >>> >> >>> programación > >>> >> >>> para siempre, lástima que ahora será JavaScript quien se lleve > >>> >> >>> todos > >>> >> >>> los > >>> >> >>> laureles (o por lo menos parece que eso sucederá) > >>> >> >>> Hernan. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:12 PM, GallegO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> >>> wrote: > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Interesante... no se que opinan, tampoco se si creerle a > Dave... > >>> >> >>>> dice > >>> >> >>>> despues de tanto tiempo.... > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Saludos > >>> >> >>>> GallegO > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> -------- Mensaje original -------- > >>> >> >>>> Asunto: Chrome and V8 > >>> >> >>>> Fecha: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) > >>> >> >>>> De: Dave Griswold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> >>>> Responder a: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> >> >>>> Para: Strongtalk-general < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Hi everyone, > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> It's been a while, but now that Google has announced Chrome and > >>> >> >>>> V8, I > >>> >> >>>> can finally make a little clearer a major reason why I haven't > >>> >> >>>> been > >>> >> >>>> pushing Strongtalk development for quite a while: Chrome's new > >>> >> >>>> JavaScript engine V8. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> The V8 development team has multiple members of the original > >>> >> >>>> Animorphic team; it is headed by Lars Bak, who was the > technical > >>> >> >>>> lead > >>> >> >>>> for both Strongtalk and the HotSpot Java VM (as well as a huge > >>> >> >>>> contributor to the original Self VM). I think that you will > find > >>> >> >>>> that V8 has a lot of the creamy goodness of the Strongtalk and > >>> >> >>>> Self > >>> >> >>>> VMs, with many big architectural improvements: > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> * open source > >>> >> >>>> * will run (eventually) on Windows, Linux, and Mac > >>> >> >>>> * dynamically JITs to native code > >>> >> >>>> * can run completely independently from the browser > >>> >> >>>> * generates hidden classes behind the scenes, since javascript > >>> >> >>>> doesn't > >>> >> >>>> have them (very reminiscent of the 'maps' used in the Self VM). > >>> >> >>>> * is multi-threaded from the ground up, with the ability to > share > >>> >> >>>> VM > >>> >> >>>> overhead between different OS processes. > >>> >> >>>> * has even smaller object headers than in Strongtalk, making > small > >>> >> >>>> object overhead even smaller > >>> >> >>>> * kick-ass compacting, non-conservative garbage collector > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> The really big deal here is the fundamentally multi-threaded, > >>> >> >>>> multi- > >>> >> >>>> process nature of the VM. That is something that we don't > really > >>> >> >>>> have > >>> >> >>>> the ability to just hack into the Strongtalk VM; it would > involve > >>> >> >>>> practically an entire rewrite. Plus, expect a lot of > >>> >> >>>> architectural > >>> >> >>>> improvements in the source code based on experience with Self, > >>> >> >>>> Strongtalk and Java Hotspot VMs. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> I think these properties will rapidly make V8 the dominant VM > for > >>> >> >>>> dynamic languages. It ought to make a great platform for > >>> >> >>>> Smalltalk. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Since I am not a Googler, and they are so secretive, I am not > yet > >>> >> >>>> privy to all the gory details, but I suspect that it probably > >>> >> >>>> won't > >>> >> >>>> use type-feedback like Strongtalk, which would be the one big > >>> >> >>>> negative > >>> >> >>>> (and would mean that it wouldn't be as fast as Strongtalk). > >>> >> >>>> However > >>> >> >>>> I > >>> >> >>>> don't know that for sure, and in any case it will be open > source, > >>> >> >>>> which means that it might be a nice platform to add > type-feedback- > >>> >> >>>> based inlining to if they don't do it. At any rate, it *does* > JIT > >>> >> >>>> to > >>> >> >>>> native code, so it will be far faster than Squeak, and probably > a > >>> >> >>>> lot > >>> >> >>>> faster than Visualworks as well. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> We'll have to see what the details are when the code comes out, > >>> >> >>>> but > >>> >> >>>> the release of the V8 VM is the beginning of a whole new era > for > >>> >> >>>> dynamic languages (Smalltalk, Ruby, Python, etc). > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Let the flood of fast new dynamic language implementations > begin! > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clubSmalltalk.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
