I haven't been following the whole thread on this issue but Aaron does raise a number of valid points. I am not sure if this one has been brought up or not, so I will bring it up.
What would the legal ramifications for CLUG if they participate in an activity like this? Let say for example CLUG builds some firewalls, they get sold to companies and then someone comes along and hacks through them and causes a lot of damage. That company would then come after CRS who may in turn come back after CLUG because "they built the firewalls, we didn't!" And I was curious...if they are selling these systems to a company, would CLUG be entitled to any portion of that? Not as in selling services, but potentially as a honorarium for helping out. It could be a potential fundraiser for CLUG...or a way that we can generate a partnership...or advertising...or maybe sharing a booth some where. Just my thoughts! Cameron -----Original Message----- From: Aaron J. Seigo [mailto:aseigo@;olympusproject.org] Sent: October 27, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (clug-talk) Re: Installfest November 16? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 27 October 2002 11:34, Peter E. Williams wrote: > I don't know the answers to all your questions because there is now > new management and a new location for CRS and TechnoTrash. I won't > tie up the mailing list with the long answers to those I do know. A > visit to CRS and TechnoTrash is worth a thousand words. I also have > no intention of evading your questions. Please do not perceive any of > my responses as a defense or attack when addressing your questions. > At this stage of setting up an Installfest with CRS, I think it > would be easy to make a big issue from any of the questions you all > have made. it is not my intention to make a big issue, either. i simply wish to understand who the CRS and their affiliates are, what their goals and aims are, what my participating in a cooperation with them would result in for all involved and what they would like to see out of this. if it is simply that they want to donate space and in return get a few firewalls for their use, great. if they want some systems to give away to charities, great. if they wish to sell systems we build, then i would need to know where those proceeds go and how they are used before i personally would join in. now, seeing as you don't know many of the answers i (and apparently others) are looking for, perhaps the best thing would be if the CRS people could communicate directly with us. perhaps at a CLUG meeting, or on this list, or through you. but i, at least, require answers before doing anything. and no, i won't show up for an installfest there under the auspice of getting answers then, as then it becomes very awkward should i decide not to participate once i'm already there. i really don't want to sound stubborn or uncooperative, but i don't want to support something i don't know anything about. i hope that is understandable. i would also have a hard time getting behind making it an official CLUG activity under those circumstances. > I ask for the moment, for members to imagine setting up another > Installfest. I will now attempt to tell CLUG members what they would > be getting themselves into. > > CLUG has an opportunity to have monthly Installfests in a space > with donated electricity and computer tables. we already have two such places at our disposal. SAIT requires lead time and is not guarenteed, Nexus is pretty much always available and very open to us being there. > The ideas that have > been talked about so far on this thread are all valid. However, CLUG > members need not be concerned with being used by a business > (TechnoTrash) because CLUG members will have many options and choices. such as? > We don't have to do anything CRS or TechnoTrash tells us. One choice and what would they want, exactly? > after the next Installfest that CLUG members can make is to donate > their time to CRS activities and the societies they help. Another the question is: what will occur during the initial installfest there? this shouldn't be a difficult question =) this question arises because it was said that they would like to take their equipment and make systems out of them; if so, then what happens to those systems? i'm not going to show up, do a bunch of stuff, only to see the results of my efforts used in a way i don't agree with. > choice is to just keep on showing up for more Installfests to learn > how to fix your own computer issues or someone else's. Yet another we can do this at the CRS or elsewhere. we are not in dire need of space. > choice is to help promote Linux through workshops and Installfests > to anyone who chooses to go to the donated CRS space. until i understand what the CRS wants, how can i as an individual make such a decision? perhaps the CRS's goals are directly in line with my own. perhaps they have no needs/desires/wants from the group. perhaps they do and they are perfectly reasonable. i don't know. but until i do, and especially when questions are asked and then not answered, i can not in good faith make any sort of decision or committment. > The CRS isn't forcing us to do anything in accepting their space. > They want their volunteers to learn Linux. What they do with Linux > is up to them. TechnoTrash is a business whose staff is concerned > with the raw materials from used computers. They only want a Linux > firewall for their Internet access. The CRS wants two of them. this is fine ... they can show up to an installfest (There or elsewhere) and participate, just like everyone else. again: the point is that the idea of CLUG helping them build systems was brought up as part of the concept. that is the issue that needs clarification. > The CRS is a Not-For-Profit society that does what it can to make > the best use of donated computers. If it can't find a use, they > place it on the TechnoTrash pile. which doesn't tell me anything. i still don't know what happens with those systems. > CRS was thinking of selling Linux firewalls with the computers which > cannot be used by the societies it helps. and this is what needs clarification: where does CLUG come into this? > It seems that societies > don't have much use for firewalls, but businesses certainly do. what makes societies different from businesses? they don't have internet connections? > Selling a firewall to a business would only supplement the CRS > operations. which are? > I would suggest that any unanswered questions pertaining to the > operations of CRS and TechnoTrash be addressed at the next > Installfest. then i would suggest that we hold the next installfest elsewhere and they can attend and we can use that time to discuss an installfest there. > firewalls, LTSP, computer building for your charity, etc.) Remember > also, they can decide if they want to keep on inviting us to use > their donated space and electricity for more Installfests. remember that we have two other locations for that already =) > computers to CLUG when a relationship develops. He sees working with > CLUG as a positive means to work with the community and as a learning > tool for CRS and CLUG. An Installfest and other shared projects would > allow us to help each other achieve our separate goals. I would tend > to agree. that's all well and good. but once again: what are their goals, and how do they plan on achieving them? - -- Aaron J. Seigo GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" - Albert Einstein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9vFrw1rcusafx20MRAgeiAJ9KOeKobLkMv1iR9PdLPDTM/2wgBgCfVuPa vFwREZLEOXUyH/7MdM1Hkoc= =PJP0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
