Having never been to an installfest, I have a suggestion.
I HAVE been to CRS/Technotrash, and I had a hard time seeing where one ended
and the next began.
The person Peter and I spoke with said he had NO expectations from us in
attending, and frankly, he had some extremely competent people there
already, so I believe him. He DID say, and he's right, that Linux people
are far more likely than most to have a use (need) for something that cannot
be found at Computers'R'Us (or whatever). He's probably right about that.
Things like UltraSparc2 and Alpha Processor mean something to me, but they
mean nothing to most other people. So we are certainly a potential market
for him.
He did specifically address the idea of people bringing their own computers,
and installing Linux, and he said that was expected. He was fine with it.
I believe it was Peter who suggested that another option would be for
someone to grab a machine, set it up during the installfest, and purchase it
at a minimal cost. This didn't sound like it would be an issue, though it
wasn't really clarified.
I will say that some of the old equipment went at what I would consiter a
stupidly high price. I mean if he can get it, great, but *I'd* never pay
it. ($800 for a used, run of the mill dot matrix printer). We didn't
discuss prices for PCs, but hopefully they're more reasonable, since they're
more common.
I've sent mail off-list to Aaron adressing a few concerns I had, and they
more or less mirror what has already been said. Since some concerns have
been brought onto this list, I'll reitterate another one here.
CRS/TechnoTrash is a warehouse
This is fine by me, but it means that it is cold and not brightly
lit. It has a concrete floor. I'm OK with that environment. BUT...
Would I bring a supervisor, co-worker, or spouse there and try
to sell them on Linux? No.
How does this portray Linux when contrasted against a
professional presentation in a boardroom, conferenceroom, etc? Poorly.
I wrote quite a bit more but decided to stay out of the politics, and
therefore, I deleted it.
Kev.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron J. Seigo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: (clug-talk) Re: Installfest November 16?
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> On Sunday 27 October 2002 11:34, Peter E. Williams wrote:
> > I don't know the answers to all your questions because there is now
> > new management and a new location for CRS and TechnoTrash. I won't
> > tie up the mailing list with the long answers to those I do know. A
> > visit to CRS and TechnoTrash is worth a thousand words. I also have
> > no intention of evading your questions. Please do not perceive any of
> > my responses as a defense or attack when addressing your questions.
> > At this stage of setting up an Installfest with CRS, I think it
> > would be easy to make a big issue from any of the questions you all
> > have made.
>
> it is not my intention to make a big issue, either. i simply wish to
> understand who the CRS and their affiliates are, what their goals and aims
> are, what my participating in a cooperation with them would result in for
all
> involved and what they would like to see out of this.
>
> if it is simply that they want to donate space and in return get a few
> firewalls for their use, great. if they want some systems to give away to
> charities, great. if they wish to sell systems we build, then i would need
to
> know where those proceeds go and how they are used before i personally
would
> join in.
>
> now, seeing as you don't know many of the answers i (and apparently
others)
> are looking for, perhaps the best thing would be if the CRS people could
> communicate directly with us. perhaps at a CLUG meeting, or on this list,
or
> through you.
>
> but i, at least, require answers before doing anything. and no, i won't
show
> up for an installfest there under the auspice of getting answers then, as
> then it becomes very awkward should i decide not to participate once i'm
> already there. i really don't want to sound stubborn or uncooperative, but
i
> don't want to support something i don't know anything about. i hope that
is
> understandable.
>
> i would also have a hard time getting behind making it an official CLUG
> activity under those circumstances.
>
> > I ask for the moment, for members to imagine setting up another
> > Installfest. I will now attempt to tell CLUG members what they would
> > be getting themselves into.
> >
> > CLUG has an opportunity to have monthly Installfests in a space
> > with donated electricity and computer tables.
>
> we already have two such places at our disposal. SAIT requires lead time
and
> is not guarenteed, Nexus is pretty much always available and very open to
us
> being there.
>
> > The ideas that have
> > been talked about so far on this thread are all valid. However, CLUG
> > members need not be concerned with being used by a business
> > (TechnoTrash) because CLUG members will have many options and choices.
>
> such as?
>
> > We don't have to do anything CRS or TechnoTrash tells us. One choice
>
> and what would they want, exactly?
>
> > after the next Installfest that CLUG members can make is to donate
> > their time to CRS activities and the societies they help. Another
>
> the question is: what will occur during the initial installfest there?
this
> shouldn't be a difficult question =) this question arises because it was
said
> that they would like to take their equipment and make systems out of them;
if
> so, then what happens to those systems? i'm not going to show up, do a
bunch
> of stuff, only to see the results of my efforts used in a way i don't
agree
> with.
>
> > choice is to just keep on showing up for more Installfests to learn
> > how to fix your own computer issues or someone else's. Yet another
>
> we can do this at the CRS or elsewhere. we are not in dire need of space.
>
> > choice is to help promote Linux through workshops and Installfests
> > to anyone who chooses to go to the donated CRS space.
>
> until i understand what the CRS wants, how can i as an individual make
such a
> decision? perhaps the CRS's goals are directly in line with my own.
perhaps
> they have no needs/desires/wants from the group. perhaps they do and they
are
> perfectly reasonable. i don't know. but until i do, and especially when
> questions are asked and then not answered, i can not in good faith make
any
> sort of decision or committment.
>
> > The CRS isn't forcing us to do anything in accepting their space.
> > They want their volunteers to learn Linux. What they do with Linux
> > is up to them. TechnoTrash is a business whose staff is concerned
> > with the raw materials from used computers. They only want a Linux
> > firewall for their Internet access. The CRS wants two of them.
>
> this is fine ... they can show up to an installfest (There or elsewhere)
and
> participate, just like everyone else.
>
> again: the point is that the idea of CLUG helping them build systems was
> brought up as part of the concept. that is the issue that needs
> clarification.
>
> > The CRS is a Not-For-Profit society that does what it can to make
> > the best use of donated computers. If it can't find a use, they
> > place it on the TechnoTrash pile.
>
> which doesn't tell me anything. i still don't know what happens with those
> systems.
>
> > CRS was thinking of selling Linux firewalls with the computers which
> > cannot be used by the societies it helps.
>
> and this is what needs clarification: where does CLUG come into this?
>
> > It seems that societies
> > don't have much use for firewalls, but businesses certainly do.
>
> what makes societies different from businesses? they don't have internet
> connections?
>
> > Selling a firewall to a business would only supplement the CRS
> > operations.
>
> which are?
>
> > I would suggest that any unanswered questions pertaining to the
> > operations of CRS and TechnoTrash be addressed at the next
> > Installfest.
>
> then i would suggest that we hold the next installfest elsewhere and they
can
> attend and we can use that time to discuss an installfest there.
>
> > firewalls, LTSP, computer building for your charity, etc.) Remember
> > also, they can decide if they want to keep on inviting us to use
> > their donated space and electricity for more Installfests.
>
> remember that we have two other locations for that already =)
>
> > computers to CLUG when a relationship develops. He sees working with
> > CLUG as a positive means to work with the community and as a learning
> > tool for CRS and CLUG. An Installfest and other shared projects would
> > allow us to help each other achieve our separate goals. I would tend
> > to agree.
>
> that's all well and good. but once again: what are their goals, and how do
> they plan on achieving them?
>
> - --
> Aaron J. Seigo
> GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
>
> "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"
> - Albert Einstein
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