I have no idea where you got the idea that I was scared to invite someone from City Hall, to meet them or listen to them. I'm not scared - that's why I have come to embrace so much Open Source stuff. As a matter of fact, if a City IT manager was to give a CLUG talk, I would be delighted to ask a few questions.
You may call me cynical, if you must, but not scared.
:)
...Niels
Cameron Nikitiuk wrote:
To adapt a phrase from the movie "What About Bob"
"Baby steps towards open source."
You have to start somewhere...especially when you are looking at a heavily bureaucratic entity like a municipal government. I think the IT people would love to do towards FLOSS, but like most organizations the rubber stamp from higher up must fall first. I know that sounds like a contradiction from what I said before, but....as much as I don't like the guy and didn't vote for him, he said he will reduce spending and try and make things run more efficient.
Licensing fees are a great way to start reducing expenditures, as is cheaper more commodity hardware. Try not to forget you have a stink-load of spoon-fed by proprietary software end-users behind each of those computer terminals. And as much as we like FLOSS, there isn't a solid answer for everything Windows...and maybe there never will be for some things. the important thing to remember is that whether it is Windows or Linux or GAIM or MSN messenger, an individual or an organization has to weigh a lot of issues; find the best balance of resources and productivity in the choices they make and try and find the best tool for the job. With governments... they have the added fun of also being accountable (well...not federal Liberals...) with our money. I am finding a similar sort of thing happening in the company I work for. the embracing of FLOSS is small right now...but it has to start somewhere.
Maybe instead of criticizing the fact that they are only moving .05% right now towards FLOSS, we should be encouraging those choices by contacting our alderman, the mayor, the IT group and whoever else we can get in touch with and applaud that move and encourage them to move further. Perhaps making some contacts and passing a few copies of CLUGGIX to key players might help. And whets wrong with inviting those same people to a meeting. Are we that self-conscious, embarrassed and unprofessional that we can't present ourselves to government officials? Or be open to hear what they have to say? Why do we get so scared everytime Windows, Microsoft or other proprietary terms are used? Lets develop a firmer resolve...a stronger heart for what we believe in....to quote another movie..."Field Of Dreams"
"If you build it, they will come!"
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Niels Voll Sent: February 27, 2004 10:19 PM To: CLUG General Subject: Re: [clug-talk] no comment
Sorry guys, I'd love to share your enthusiasm and nominations for CLUG presentations by City IT managers - but I don't think this is a particularly big deal, and I think the City is still steering the opposite way. Allow me to explain, why I think that.
Switching from AIX, Solaris, HP/UX or similar to Linux is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Heck, at my old company, we made that switch back in 2000, so I wouldn't call this move by the City IT group particularly breathtaking in its boldness or vision.
The credit for that goes to the price/performance advantage of Intel and AMD based boxes over the RISC based boxes. It's really more of a hardware switch than anything else. Wouldn't it be ironic if Linux is just being used to wean some old Unix hands off their beloved command prompt, and maybe even via KDE into accepting Windows? Ouch, wouldn't that hurt !
I think the City of Calgary is still firmly in bed with MS. Just look at the typical quote from their IT postings - the following is from: http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/hr/Postings/ccpcs004-IT04-5461.htm :
<QUOTE> The City of Calgary uses the following tools and technologies for client server and web application development: Visual Basic 6.0 accessing Oracle using ADO; N-Tier development using COM+; Web development using ASP with VBScript (limited Javascript) running under IIS; Active Reports for integrated reporting; Visual Source Safe for source code management; PL/SQL for Oracle stored procedures and triggers; ESRI tools for GIS development; Visio for data modeling and methodology deliverables; and Project Analyzer and Mercury tools for ASQ. The City is transitioning towards a VB.NET / ASP.NET environment. </QUOTE>
Does anyone see any open source thinking in there whatsoever? Especially the last sentence makes it abundantly clear, that their future is getting more entrenched into MS technology, rather than even keeping their options open with J2EE (Java), or at least some of the LAMP tools as their strategic server side choices. And as far as I'm concerned, using MS on the server is only imaginable, if you are having a die-hard MS strategy on the desktop. I can't imagine even the City IT group can cook up something as technically/strategically perverse as to run MS on the server, and Linux on the desktop.
If someone doesn't even have the insight to prepare for running Linux on the server, where it is really a no-brainer by now, you know exactly which cool-aid is being served in the City of Calgary cafeteria! </rant>
So sorry, but I don't even see strategic open mindedness, so no cheering from this taxpayer.
...Niels
p.s. I'd love to be proved wrong by a senior City IT manager!
Cameron Nikitiuk wrote:
I gave a hearty "Holy Crap!" when I read City Of Calgary...maybe Bronco has
definitely deserveswhacked some sense into some people down there. Not a big fan of the guy...buy he has done some good stuff.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of bogi Sent: February 27, 2004 5:38 PM To: CLUG General Subject: Re: [clug-talk] no comment
Is it possible to get Dan Ryan to do a speech , lecture and
discussion forum
for/ with clug ???? At least he is in Calgary, Now He
some honorary penguin belt . . .
Cheers Szemir
On February 27, 2004 16:47, Pete wrote:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1093&e=1&u=/pcworl d/2004022
7/tc_pcworld/115011
no comment
Peter
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