I wasn't calling you scared. I was saying FLODD users and supporters as a whole, seem to have an inferiority complex and sometimes seem unwilling/unable or just plain scared when it comes to standing up for what they believe in. I respect the way you think and the way you present your arguements even if I don't agreee with them. That is what choice is all about....and choice is what FLOSS is all about.
I have been chaning a lot of my ways the last couple weeks and so I am trying to change the way I think as well....maybe cause I am getting old or something (33 today). Keep fighting the fight Niels! Cameron > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Niels Voll > Sent: February 28, 2004 12:08 AM > To: CLUG General > Subject: Re: [clug-talk] no comment > > > Sorry Cameron, > > I have no idea where you got the idea that I was scared to invite > someone from City Hall, to meet them or listen to them. I'm not scared - > that's why I have come to embrace so much Open Source stuff. As a > matter of fact, if a City IT manager was to give a CLUG talk, I would be > delighted to ask a few questions. > > You may call me cynical, if you must, but not scared. > > :) > > ...Niels > > > > Cameron Nikitiuk wrote: > > >To adapt a phrase from the movie "What About Bob" > > > >"Baby steps towards open source." > > > >You have to start somewhere...especially when you are looking at > a heavily > >bureaucratic entity like a municipal government. I think the IT people > >would love to do towards FLOSS, but like most organizations the > rubber stamp > >from higher up must fall first. I know that sounds like a contradiction > >from what I said before, but....as much as I don't like the guy > and didn't > >vote for him, he said he will reduce spending and try and make things run > >more efficient. > > > >Licensing fees are a great way to start reducing expenditures, > as is cheaper > >more commodity hardware. Try not to forget you have a stink-load of > >spoon-fed by proprietary software end-users behind each of those computer > >terminals. And as much as we like FLOSS, there isn't a solid answer for > >everything Windows...and maybe there never will be for some things. the > >important thing to remember is that whether it is Windows or > Linux or GAIM > >or MSN messenger, an individual or an organization has to weigh a lot of > >issues; find the best balance of resources and productivity in > the choices > >they make and try and find the best tool for the job. With > governments... > >they have the added fun of also being accountable (well...not federal > >Liberals...) with our money. I am finding a similar sort of > thing happening > >in the company I work for. the embracing of FLOSS is small > right now...but > >it has to start somewhere. > > > >Maybe instead of criticizing the fact that they are only moving > .05% right > >now towards FLOSS, we should be encouraging those choices by > contacting our > >alderman, the mayor, the IT group and whoever else we can get in > touch with > >and applaud that move and encourage them to move further. Perhaps making > >some contacts and passing a few copies of CLUGGIX to key players > might help. > >And whets wrong with inviting those same people to a meeting. > Are we that > >self-conscious, embarrassed and unprofessional that we can't present > >ourselves to government officials? Or be open to hear what they have to > >say? Why do we get so scared everytime Windows, Microsoft or other > >proprietary terms are used? Lets develop a firmer resolve...a stronger > >heart for what we believe in....to quote another movie..."Field > Of Dreams" > > > >"If you build it, they will come!" > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Behalf Of Niels Voll > >>Sent: February 27, 2004 10:19 PM > >>To: CLUG General > >>Subject: Re: [clug-talk] no comment > >> > >> > >>Sorry guys, I'd love to share your enthusiasm and nominations for CLUG > >>presentations by City IT managers - but I don't think this is a > >>particularly big deal, and I think the City is still steering the > >>opposite way. Allow me to explain, why I think that. > >> > >>Switching from AIX, Solaris, HP/UX or similar to Linux is a no-brainer > >>as far as I'm concerned. Heck, at my old company, we made that switch > >>back in 2000, so I wouldn't call this move by the City IT group > >>particularly breathtaking in its boldness or vision. > >> > >>The credit for that goes to the price/performance advantage of Intel and > >>AMD based boxes over the RISC based boxes. It's really more of a > >>hardware switch than anything else. Wouldn't it be ironic if Linux is > >>just being used to wean some old Unix hands off their beloved command > >>prompt, and maybe even via KDE into accepting Windows? Ouch, wouldn't > >>that hurt ! > >> > >>I think the City of Calgary is still firmly in bed with MS. Just look at > >>the typical quote from their IT postings - the following is from: > >>http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/hr/Postings/ccpcs004-IT04-5461.htm : > >> > >><QUOTE> > >>The City of Calgary uses the following tools and technologies for client > >>server and web application development: Visual Basic 6.0 accessing > >>Oracle using ADO; N-Tier development using COM+; Web development using > >>ASP with VBScript (limited Javascript) running under IIS; Active Reports > >>for integrated reporting; Visual Source Safe for source code management; > >>PL/SQL for Oracle stored procedures and triggers; ESRI tools for GIS > >>development; Visio for data modeling and methodology deliverables; and > >>Project Analyzer and Mercury tools for ASQ. The City is transitioning > >>towards a VB.NET / ASP.NET environment. > >></QUOTE> > >> > >>Does anyone see any open source thinking in there whatsoever? Especially > >>the last sentence makes it abundantly clear, that their future is > >>getting more entrenched into MS technology, rather than even keeping > >>their options open with J2EE (Java), or at least some of the LAMP tools > >>as their strategic server side choices. And as far as I'm concerned, > >>using MS on the server is only imaginable, if you are having a die-hard > >>MS strategy on the desktop. I can't imagine even the City IT group can > >>cook up something as technically/strategically perverse as to run MS on > >>the server, and Linux on the desktop. > >> > >>If someone doesn't even have the insight to prepare for running Linux on > >>the server, where it is really a no-brainer by now, you know exactly > >>which cool-aid is being served in the City of Calgary cafeteria! > >></rant> > >> > >>So sorry, but I don't even see strategic open mindedness, so no cheering > >>from this taxpayer. > >> > >>...Niels > >> > >>p.s. I'd love to be proved wrong by a senior City IT manager! > >> > >> > >> > >>Cameron Nikitiuk wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I gave a hearty "Holy Crap!" when I read City Of Calgary... > >>> > >>> > >>maybe Bronco has > >> > >> > >>>whacked some sense into some people down there. Not a big fan of the > >>>guy...buy he has done some good stuff. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>Behalf Of bogi > >>>>Sent: February 27, 2004 5:38 PM > >>>>To: CLUG General > >>>>Subject: Re: [clug-talk] no comment > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Is it possible to get Dan Ryan to do a speech , lecture and > >>>>discussion forum > >>>>for/ with clug ???? At least he is in Calgary, Now He > >>>> > >>>> > >>definitely deserves > >> > >> > >>>>some honorary penguin belt . . . > >>>> > >>>>Cheers > >>>>Szemir > >>>> > >>>>On February 27, 2004 16:47, Pete wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1093&e=1&u=/pcworl > >>>>d/2004022 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>7/tc_pcworld/115011 > >>>>> > >>>>>no comment > >>>>> > >>>>>Peter > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>clug-talk mailing list > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>clug-talk mailing list > >>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>clug-talk mailing list > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>clug-talk mailing list > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >clug-talk mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > clug-talk mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca
