On March 6, 2004 01:54 am, Shawn wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm hearing this from a few people. To address this, I would like to > suggest that we not cover specifics like "Learn to code in PHP in 1 hour" > (which leads to a classroom type setting), but cover a generalization like > "PHP routines I found useful". In this way, the newbies will get some > theory, but still have access to the not-so-newbies for guidance and > mentoring. The intent isn't to train people how to code, but to share > programming related knowledge and help point people to resources to learn > more, or train themselves. A presentation to teach HTML can easily take a > full day or more to cover all the nuances, so a lesson like this probably > won't work out. However, a "Tricks with HTML" type of lesson would > probably be beneficial, and could be done in a short time. > > I'd like the presentations to be more for general knowledge, specifically > so we don't alienate people who don't care for the topic being discussed. > I doubt I would show up for a meeting on HTML or Javascript. I can easily > give a presentation on these topics, but there would be others not > interested. (that said, I'm willing to give a "roadmap to web development" > presentation for new programmers...) > > The problem is that we have both new programmers, who want to learn, and > experienced programmers who are looking to expand their skill sets. We > want our meetings to be suitable for both. I'm hoping that the experienced > programmers might mentor the new programmers and help accellerate their > learning, as well as converse with other experienced programmers and > discuss more advanced issues. If the meetings aren't at least partially > suitable for the experienced programmers, then they will not show up. If > that were to happen, then I would consider the SIG a failure (my own > opinion).
I have to say Id agree with Shawn here, finding a good balance is important. I'm somewhat of an intermediate programmer, so the opportunity to talk with those who know more would greatly help me, however if theres a 4 hour presentation on HTML/CSS or PHP syntax someone may need to nudge me when I start snoring. At the same time that may interest someone else, and Id be more than willing to help with points someone might be having a hard time with. If no experienced programers show up, a discussion between newbies might lead to a whole lot of ugly code :D but I think the goal should be making everyone a better programmer, regardless of where they're starting out. I for one would bring my notebook and tinfoil hat to any meeting regarding writing more secure code. > > I'm open for suggestions on how to make it work for both levels of > programmers. Thus far, I think the best option is to do two presentations > at each meeting. One for new programmers, and one for experienced > programmers. > > Now, if you were to show up at a meeting, and pull me aside to ask your > questions, I'd be happy to dump as much knowledge as you can take in a > single setting.. :D (keeping in mind that while I may be experienced, there > is always more to learn, and I've been known to be wrong on occasion.) > Then, hopefully you would talk with other programmers on the same topic to > get a different point of view. That's one of the things that is fun with > programming - each developer has a different way of looking at a > problem/solution, and every one of them is valid. > > So, you're point is well taken. I agree we MUST accomodate new > programmers. However, we must ALSO accomodate the experienced programmers. > > Shawn > > (ps. there is no "best language" or "best method" - the question should be > more posed as "what is the best tool to use to solve my problem, within the > constraints of the problem", where the constraints are things like time, > cost, current knowledge, and current environment. Message me off list if > you'd like to discuss this more). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Dave Watkins > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:45 PM > To: 'CLUG General' > Subject: RE: [clug-talk] Special Interest Group for Programming? > > > Good day All, > > I for one would be interested in looking at this IF it was targeted towards > the person that had never coded before. I have looked at this before and > quite frankly have been lost in the dust by individuals that certainly know > how to code but do not how to help someone learn how to code. > > At this point I should say that apart from a Pascal course many years ago > that I totally forget... I know absolutely nothing about the topic. > > I'd be interested in a format that basically started @ ground zero and > worked up from there. Something similar to what one would expect if it was > "The first step into the void". Things like this: > > What's programming? > What code's best for what? > What's the best code to start learning? > Etc etc > > It's late, I'm tired and not sure if y'all get the meaning. > > Shout if you need clarification. > > > Cheers, > > Dave Watkins > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davewatkins.net > Voice: 403-701-5746 Fax: 403-266-0626 > > Hardware/Software Sales, Service & Support > Electronics Restoration Specialists > > > _______________________________________________ > clug-talk mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca -- Nick W (nickw77 at shaw.ca) Registered Linux User #324288 (http://counter.li.org) MSN Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo: foolish_gambit ICQ: 303276221 It's not our fault, we're outnumbered by stupid people ten to one. _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca
