Interesting discussion, I have some content that would add yet another point of 
view.

The common view would be that theft is bad, however there is a transitional 
phase where it will happen until the system corrects itself and a new steady 
state is established.

Here is an example, the movie industry was scream bloody hell when the vcr came 
out - the premise was that people would copy movies and they would lose 
revenue.  In reality what happen was that people did copy movies and they lost 
some revenue.  From their point of view it was lost of revenue but it is only a 
real lost if there was a potential buyer that no longer bought.  On the flip 
side, it create huge opportunities where it created a multi-billion dollar 
industry.  The increase exposure create a market that far exceeded what they 
lost.

When I was young, there were not a lot of movies in a year - today you need a 
small fortune to own all the movies produced in a year.  From an economic point 
of view, with a greater market and consumer base, you would expect prices to 
drop.  The prices have not dropped significantly (at least upon initial 
release).  As the movie industry moves to bigger budget movies and stars 
demanding bigger dollars, the movie industry continues to point their fingers 
at the downloaders as the problem.

Corporate social responsibility is as close a name as I can think of for this 
phenomenon.  (not in all cases) don't spend big bucks producing something 
mediocre and expect consumers to compensate you.  Don't produce something that 
costs 0.50 and expect payment of $30.  I am not saying that profit is bad, just 
that exhorbant profit is bad as the public will find alternative action be it 
legal or illegal.

People have talked about theft and contract of the Internet but no one has 
talked about the Internet as an enabler to create for the first time equality 
between big and small business.  Today, you can be a publisher, a movie 
producer, a software company, a music producer.  Today you can do all this in 
direct competition with big business.  This concept is well covered in a book 
called Wikinomics.  In there it outlines a paradigm shift where the importance 
is exposure and not compensation.  (Starting to sound like Star Trek.)  One 
author states that he writes a book and sells it through traditional means but 
he also allows it to be downloaded from his website for free.  He is also not 
too concern that someone on the other side of the world may download, print and 
sell his book without him seeing a dime.  To him, the world is his market and 
his main concern is will his thoughts and notions be heard in a sea of me too 
voices.  At some point if people like his ideas, they will se
 ek him out and will buy a book from him.

This is also very much true with up and coming struggling artists.  Any 
exposure is good exposure even intentionally allowing people to 'steal' your 
music.

>From my point of view, the open market dictates what is ethical and what is 
>not over time.  Ethics is not dictated by a single point of view or artificial 
>oversight committees or government but by societies collective view over time. 
> Lastly, ethics is a matter of affordability - we can certainly feel very smug 
>looking at what is ethical and what is not living is a warm house with 3 or 
>more square meals a day.  Take away all the comforts of life then theft of the 
>basic living requirements like food now becomes a right.

That certainly did not clear anything up - just thought I would broaden the 
subject matter.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Z. (If forwarding, PLEASE delete address from body of e-mail!)" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CLUG General" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:32:16 AM (GMT-0700) America/Chihuahua
Subject: Re: [clug-talk] Open WiFi (shift from clug-tech discussion)

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