Juan Alberto Cirez wrote:
Silly me. I thought that my comments would start a sincere and honest
discussion on the state of GNU/Linux. Instead all I've gotten is
narrow-mindedness and fanaticism (i.e my d*** is bigger than yours). My
bad, I should have known.
I guess time will tell.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
Having finished reading through todays tome that is this thread, I note
a few things.
Gustin and Dafydd are both trying to tell you that they see things
differently. That the "average user" can easily use Linux or Windows.
Juan sees windows as being easier to use than Linux.
Both opinions are perfectly fine/correct. Because they are OPINIONS and
these are formed on personal observations/experiences. I see very
little that is getting into a "pissing match", though I do see some
comments heading towards a flame war. But, the very subject line of
this thread should have set up expectations of a flame war. To pretend
surprise when it happens is disingenuous. (Ha.. big word, go look it
up! lol)
My take on the conversation so far. Juan has not yet shown me any
proper support for his position. And in some cases actually counter's
his position. Juan points out (very correctly) that
"LINUX = The KERNEL"
Yet the subject line says *Linux* Blows. But then he goes on to tell us
(in the original post) that his experience of Linux on the servers is
very good. So which is it? Does Linux suck in general? Or does a
particular desktop interface suck? If it's the desktop interface, then
the subject line is wrong and this whole conversation would have gone
differently.
Challenging someone in a Linux Users Group with "What have you
contributed lately" is akin to sadism/masochism. The three people who
have been predominantly responding have ALL contributed to the
Linux/FOSS ecosystem in various ways. To point out one fallacy though -
asking Dafydd what he has contributed shows a lack of knowledge about
Dafydd in general. His employer is a well known contributor to various
elements of the Linux software stack, and Dafydd also does things on the
side. I think the only worse person to ask this question of would be
Aaron Seigo. (with regards to CLUG that is)
Regarding children. My daughter sits at my computer occasionally and
NEVER has any trouble doing what she wants. Any troubles she does
encounter is a simple lack of knowledge about where things are (to be
expected for a young child). She has this same sort of trouble on
Windows computers. i.e. "Dad, how do I start the typing program
again?", or "Mom [who runs windows], how do I start the typing program
again?".
Regarding adults. My roommate is a Class-B pressure welder. Loose
translation of that is "I know how to turn a computer on, but not much
more". I had him using a Linux desktop for a couple years. HE figured
out on his own how to do typical things (web, office productivity,
etc.). It's funny to hear him tell his work mates that they should be
running Linux when they complain about the latest virus... My point
here is that one person's experience is NOT the same as every person's
experience.
Saying Windows is "easier" is a loaded statement and needs a lot of
qualifiers. Easier for who? In what context? For what tasks? to name
a few.
For who: Windows IS easier for anyone who has previous experience with
Windows. The "Windows Interface" has been drilled into us for decades.
This is decades of training to do things a particular way. Moving
from that mindset to Linux means some things need to be unlearned
because Linux IS NOT WINDOWS. This is where the frustrations primarily
come from (IMO). Given enough time any Windows user can comfortably use
a Linux desktop environment. When MS changes the interface rules (MS
Ribbon anyone?) there is a general uproar about how "unusable" these
changes are. How is that different than the different philosophies of
the various desktop environments?
Context: Windows at home, versus Windows at the office serve two
different roles and require different approaches and skills. Why should
a Linux distribution be different? Linux at home IS easy, for just
about any typical home user type needs. Linux at work is a different
situation and may not always be the best choice. But, even if it is
adopted, see the "For Who" bit above - the differences work themselves
out soon enough.
Tasks: Juan implies Linux on the server makes more sense than Windows
on the server. I personally agree with this. But Juan also says
Windows on the desktop is better than Linux on the desktop. I say "It
depends". It depends on the specific user in question. It depends on
the applications to be used. It depends on how critical that
computer/role is. If an experienced Linux user needs to provide CAD
diagrams as a critical part of the business, this can be done. However
if everyone around them is using AutoCad and expect everything this
person does is also in AutoCad, then this is a case where installing
Linux is a stupid move. Use the right tool for the job - considering
the context of that usage as well.
Jesse introduced the car analogy (they are just so easy and fitting with
regards to FOSS vs Proprietary). I'll continue this...
Juan, your statement is very much like saying "I have always drivin a
Ford F150. It's a good workhorse truck, but it sucks as a daily
commuter vehicle. Therefore ALL Ford products suck as a commuter
vehicle." Your statement is flawed in that it suggests no other options
have been considered. And even if those other options ARE included, you
seem to say that everyone must have the same opinion as you.
If you want me to have the same opinion as you, you need to give me hard
data/links/resources that explain your position. And at that time I MAY
chose to revise my opinion. Or not. (thus far the supporting
evidence you have presented seems to be rather lacking)
Regardless of what my opinion is, ignoring other's statements as being
"wrong" because they do not agree with your view, is clearly going to
set you up for an argument and flame war. You are much better to ask
for clarification or references - which promotes a more healthy
discussion (IMO).
And just in case it's not clear, all my above comments have been made in
an objective manner. No personal insults/slurs intended.
K. This post took longer than I thought. But I think my points have
been made.
Shawn
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