Hmm... maybe I'll check them out sometime and report back to the group. Shhhhh... don't tell anyone I reside on the left-coast :-).
Jesse On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Courtenay Watson <[email protected]>wrote: > I'm not even really a CLUG member, so maybe I should't write, but I > hope what I have to say might help someone out so... > I spent the summer in Calgary. I figured since it was a big city, > there must be a linux group there, so I found CLUG. I ended up working > nights and didn't make it to any meetings, but I participated a tiny > bit on the e-list and have observed/lurked as well. > When I returned to my hometown in BC, I was linked to the Vancouver > Ubuntu group. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Vancouver) Anyway, > although I'm too far to participate personally, I've watched their > meeting minutes and announcements. They seem to be gaining ~10 new > members a month, support newbies as well as the "oldies" and have > events with decent turn-outs. I don't know what they're doing > differently than other groups, but I'm sure someone there does. And > I'm sure if you contacted them, they'd be willing to share what has > made them successful. Anyway, feel free to ignore the whole thing, > just figured it might help sometime :) > Courtenay Watson > Kamloops BC > > > > It's been a few days since this thread was last commented on. Here's my > > take. Sorry, this turned out to be a little longer than I thought.... > > > > As someone who has been part of the group for 5+ years, I've noticed > > significant changes in the structure of the group over time. I've > > participated in some of those changes, and instigated some. > > > > The very reason for CLUG began to disappear about the same time Ubuntu > > came into existence. Linux got easy to install. Ubuntu, Red Hat, SuSE, > > Mandriva, etc all contributed to this. As did the countless developers > > scratching their "itch". CLUG began to loose focus as there became less > > of a need for help in getting things set up. > > > > Forgive me for using myself as an example, but I do feel this applies to > > all contributors.... I did my time as president, I took on COSSFEST, > > PROGSIG is still going, and I'm still involved as a member. But there > > does come a time where I think that someone else needs to step up and > > make things happen. I do have a life and a business that demands my > > attention elsewhere, often. I hit a wall occasionally where I ask > > myself why I bother with the effort if no one else is going to help out. > > Usually at these times, I step back and wait to see if the > > community/group will fill the gaps. > > > > In recent times, I've begun asking myself why I continue with CLUG. I'm > > not a novice user, and I can glean what I need from Google for most of > > the topics we cover. From a technical perspective, CLUG offers nothing > > for me anymore. There is the social aspects of hanging out with friends > > every month. But for a group like CLUG, that is not sufficient. I've > > noticed that the social conversations have begun to be "more important" > > than the executive member standing up front trying to carry on the > > meeting and do planning. These side conversations drown out anything > > else for those nearby and are generally very frustrating. Sure, some of > > the side conversations are on topic, but some are not and ALL can be > > done afterwards. That's my own opinion as a member in the crowd (and > > guilty of these infractions as well). Those who are standing at the > > front of the room are shown a fair amount of disrespect when this > > happens - IMO. So, why bother? > > > > I'm not trying to be condescending here. I'm trying to point out that > > the very nature of CLUG has shifted too far to the social side of > > things. And if that is the case, why do we even bother meeting at > > DeVry? Why not just move the meetings to the bar and drop the idea of > > "presentations"? Do we really need an executive at that point? > > > > Anyone visiting us sees this type of interaction and rarely come back. > > Something has to change, or CLUG becomes irrelevant. > > > > I don't have the answers for this problem. But do have some ideas. > > > > Drop the idea of catering to newbies. Nobody was there to hold my hand > > as I learned how to use OpenOffice, Inkscape, Thunderbird, etc. Instead > > I recall attending discussions on topics that were out of my comfort > > area, and I was expected to do a little research if the topic was of > > interest to me. I was expected to pay attention or get utterly lost. > > Instead, focus on topics that are of interest to US. For myself that > > would be things like making use of Linux for my business. Configuring > > an Apache server for virtual hosts, with support for various tools > > (Trac, Subversion, etc). Installing applications from scratch > > (compiling them), and how to get around the issues that come up in doing > > so under different distro's. Programming theory - using PHP at the > > command line, shell scripting with Python, understanding advanced data > > structures such as self balancing trees and meshes. etc. > > > > In short, do what is of interest to those of us who are still around, > > and drag the newbie kicking and screaming with us. There is time for > > the newbies to ask questions and receive mentoring afterwards in the Q&A > > portion. Or a workshop can be set up. Drop the presentations on "why I > > think distro X is better than distro B" - that doesn't need a > > presentation does it? That should be a quick 5 minute conversation - > > because ultimately that sort of thing comes down to an opinion. > > > > We should get back to a structured meeting. The people attending the > > meeting should be made to understand that they ARE attending the > > meeting. Side conversations should be moved outside, or put aside until > > after the meeting. The presenter should NOT have to manage the crowd. > > We are all adults, and professionals. We should act like it. (This > > goes for me too - I know I'm not a shining example here...) > > > > EVERYONE needs to contribute. I think that anyone attending the regular > > meetings should expect to be called on to stand up front and give a > > brief summary of what they've been working on, how they use Linux, etc. > > Right up to giving a full presentation. We can't rely on the usual > > group of people to step up to fill the dead air. Sooner or later, those > > folks will not be available. > > > > EVERYONE needs to be objectively critical of the whole structure of > > CLUG. The executive has to make choices. But making choices in a > > vacuum is non-ideal. I don't know how many times I've made choices for > > CLUG or PROGSIG with no input, and no idea if I was making the right > > choice. I had no option but to assume "no feedback is good". And that > > is a crappy approach. > > > > But, the corollary of the above is that we often MUST make a choice and > > move on. I've seen many times where we sit around talking about what we > > "could do", instead of just doing it. Once we make a choice, stick with > > it until there is clear reason to make a change. Changing things based > > on what "might" happen in some non-deterministic point in the future is > > well, stupid and reacting to fear. We need to have the courage to make > > a choice and stick to it. > > > > My apologies for the "rant", but these are things that go through my > > head when I think critically of CLUG. I feel CLUG still has a place, > > but not the way it is set up at the moment. Things need to change. A > > focus needs to be decided. Something more firm that "promote Linux and > > Open Source". WHY do that? HOW to do that, etc. That should be part > > of the focus. And that focus dictates all other actions. > > > > Either that or we just have a social club for computer geeks. > > > > My thoughts, not yours. > > > > Shawn > > _______________________________________________ > clug-talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) > **Please remove these lines when replying >
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