Hello. I have some thoughts on this problem.
The presentations I've managed to catch recently are competently delivered tutorials. The presenter is well organized and prepared, but the material is a feature demonstration or step by step install tutorial. These types of presentations lack inspiration. These days even a beginner can read some web pages and get fairly sophisticated systems running. The presentations have all the thrill of a knowledge base article. My favourite CLUG moments are all related to the deeply technical presentations and discussions we have. I remember one presenter explaining how fractal geometry worked and then going through the code to generate one. I remember the great energy we generated during the presentation when I dug very deeply into the 802.11b wireless network protocol. The deep discussions on security where people actually looked at code and pointed out the mistake and then showed how to exploit it. These presentations took a lot of time to prepare, were pretty elaborate and they were usually scheduled months in advance. The types of presentations I'd like to see would contain a lot less concrete knowledge but far deeper and more subtle insights into the technology. For instance I don't want to see a tutorial on compiling Gentoo. I would be very interested in somebody starting from bare metal and showing every component you need to get a system off the ground, why each component is important and how they fit together. I'm not interested in the commands you type to compile software from source, a discussion of compiler internals the supporting tools and intermediate compile steps would be cool. A discussion of what needs to change in the kernel to optimally support the new Nehalem chips from Intel would be very interesting. A dissection of the Bluetooth stack would be fun. We don't need to do these types of large set piece presentations every month. Just often enough to attract a solid core of technical people and maintain the social aspect of the club. I also did some research on the web about the decline of Linux user groups. One practical point that came up a few times was the facility that we meet at. A few different people said that when they moved from a place that had lots of electrical sockets and network available to one that had minimal electrical and network available attendance immediately fell off. That resonated with me because when we moved from SAIT which has excellent facilities to Devery which has crappy facilities I stopped coming as regularly. Should we look at trying to find a place that at least has electrical sockets? These ideas would definitely discourage the non specialist audience. In the Ubuntu age that may not be a bad thing. The technical support role that LUGs used to serve is very diminished in this new world. I'm advocating that the hard core audience take the club back. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jesse Kline Sent: December-16-09 9:10 PM To: CLUG General Subject: Re: [clug-talk] Why is CLUG such a struggle? Hmm... maybe I'll check them out sometime and report back to the group. Shhhhh... don't tell anyone I reside on the left-coast :-). Jesse On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Courtenay Watson <[email protected]> wrote: I'm not even really a CLUG member, so maybe I should't write, but I hope what I have to say might help someone out so... I spent the summer in Calgary. I figured since it was a big city, there must be a linux group there, so I found CLUG. I ended up working nights and didn't make it to any meetings, but I participated a tiny bit on the e-list and have observed/lurked as well. When I returned to my hometown in BC, I was linked to the Vancouver Ubuntu group. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Vancouver) Anyway, although I'm too far to participate personally, I've watched their meeting minutes and announcements. They seem to be gaining ~10 new members a month, support newbies as well as the "oldies" and have events with decent turn-outs. I don't know what they're doing differently than other groups, but I'm sure someone there does. And I'm sure if you contacted them, they'd be willing to share what has made them successful. Anyway, feel free to ignore the whole thing, just figured it might help sometime :) Courtenay Watson Kamloops BC > It's been a few days since this thread was last commented on. Here's my > take. Sorry, this turned out to be a little longer than I thought.... > > As someone who has been part of the group for 5+ years, I've noticed > significant changes in the structure of the group over time. I've > participated in some of those changes, and instigated some. > > The very reason for CLUG began to disappear about the same time Ubuntu > came into existence. Linux got easy to install. Ubuntu, Red Hat, SuSE, > Mandriva, etc all contributed to this. As did the countless developers > scratching their "itch". CLUG began to loose focus as there became less > of a need for help in getting things set up. > > Forgive me for using myself as an example, but I do feel this applies to > all contributors.... I did my time as president, I took on COSSFEST, > PROGSIG is still going, and I'm still involved as a member. But there > does come a time where I think that someone else needs to step up and > make things happen. I do have a life and a business that demands my > attention elsewhere, often. I hit a wall occasionally where I ask > myself why I bother with the effort if no one else is going to help out. > Usually at these times, I step back and wait to see if the > community/group will fill the gaps. > > In recent times, I've begun asking myself why I continue with CLUG. I'm > not a novice user, and I can glean what I need from Google for most of > the topics we cover. From a technical perspective, CLUG offers nothing > for me anymore. There is the social aspects of hanging out with friends > every month. But for a group like CLUG, that is not sufficient. I've > noticed that the social conversations have begun to be "more important" > than the executive member standing up front trying to carry on the > meeting and do planning. These side conversations drown out anything > else for those nearby and are generally very frustrating. Sure, some of > the side conversations are on topic, but some are not and ALL can be > done afterwards. That's my own opinion as a member in the crowd (and > guilty of these infractions as well). Those who are standing at the > front of the room are shown a fair amount of disrespect when this > happens - IMO. So, why bother? > > I'm not trying to be condescending here. I'm trying to point out that > the very nature of CLUG has shifted too far to the social side of > things. And if that is the case, why do we even bother meeting at > DeVry? Why not just move the meetings to the bar and drop the idea of > "presentations"? Do we really need an executive at that point? > > Anyone visiting us sees this type of interaction and rarely come back. > Something has to change, or CLUG becomes irrelevant. > > I don't have the answers for this problem. But do have some ideas. > > Drop the idea of catering to newbies. Nobody was there to hold my hand > as I learned how to use OpenOffice, Inkscape, Thunderbird, etc. Instead > I recall attending discussions on topics that were out of my comfort > area, and I was expected to do a little research if the topic was of > interest to me. I was expected to pay attention or get utterly lost. > Instead, focus on topics that are of interest to US. For myself that > would be things like making use of Linux for my business. Configuring > an Apache server for virtual hosts, with support for various tools > (Trac, Subversion, etc). Installing applications from scratch > (compiling them), and how to get around the issues that come up in doing > so under different distro's. Programming theory - using PHP at the > command line, shell scripting with Python, understanding advanced data > structures such as self balancing trees and meshes. etc. > > In short, do what is of interest to those of us who are still around, > and drag the newbie kicking and screaming with us. There is time for > the newbies to ask questions and receive mentoring afterwards in the Q&A > portion. Or a workshop can be set up. Drop the presentations on "why I > think distro X is better than distro B" - that doesn't need a > presentation does it? That should be a quick 5 minute conversation - > because ultimately that sort of thing comes down to an opinion. > > We should get back to a structured meeting. The people attending the > meeting should be made to understand that they ARE attending the > meeting. Side conversations should be moved outside, or put aside until > after the meeting. The presenter should NOT have to manage the crowd. > We are all adults, and professionals. We should act like it. (This > goes for me too - I know I'm not a shining example here...) > > EVERYONE needs to contribute. I think that anyone attending the regular > meetings should expect to be called on to stand up front and give a > brief summary of what they've been working on, how they use Linux, etc. > Right up to giving a full presentation. We can't rely on the usual > group of people to step up to fill the dead air. Sooner or later, those > folks will not be available. > > EVERYONE needs to be objectively critical of the whole structure of > CLUG. The executive has to make choices. But making choices in a > vacuum is non-ideal. I don't know how many times I've made choices for > CLUG or PROGSIG with no input, and no idea if I was making the right > choice. I had no option but to assume "no feedback is good". And that > is a crappy approach. > > But, the corollary of the above is that we often MUST make a choice and > move on. I've seen many times where we sit around talking about what we > "could do", instead of just doing it. Once we make a choice, stick with > it until there is clear reason to make a change. Changing things based > on what "might" happen in some non-deterministic point in the future is > well, stupid and reacting to fear. We need to have the courage to make > a choice and stick to it. > > My apologies for the "rant", but these are things that go through my > head when I think critically of CLUG. I feel CLUG still has a place, > but not the way it is set up at the moment. Things need to change. A > focus needs to be decided. Something more firm that "promote Linux and > Open Source". WHY do that? HOW to do that, etc. That should be part > of the focus. And that focus dictates all other actions. > > Either that or we just have a social club for computer geeks. > > My thoughts, not yours. > > Shawn _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [email protected] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) **Please remove these lines when replying _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [email protected] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) **Please remove these lines when replying
