I think Danny's assessment of broker vs owner reflects my experience exactly. In my case, the broker I was dealing with primarily dealt with brand new boats and more recent models. The "old" C&C 32 was an oddity there and I think the broker really wanted to move it because it didn't represent a commission worth working too hard for. The seller's original asking price was much higher and he lamented to me after the sale that he paid $50k for the boat 8 years prior.
I avoided brokers because of my experience with used car lots. I learned that the two are totally different. Steve Suhana, C&C 32 Toronto On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 8:15 AM, djhaug...@juno.com <djhaug...@juno.com>wrote: > Mark, > I doubt the guy is being deliberately dishonest about any of his > descriptions. He probably believes everything. What I noticed as I > shopped for a boat was that most of the brokers were more upfront about > condition than the owners trying to sell on there own. > > Lets face it, we overlook things sometimes as "not so bad" because either > we would rather spend the boat bucks on something else, or it seems like > too much of a pain in the butt to deal with right now...whatever. The > point is we convince ourselves that things are not as bad as they seem > sometimes. Now, add to the mix that you want someone to buy your boat and > you have a price that you would like to get for it. I think you are going > to be even more willing to overlook the condition of things. After all, > you first have to convince yourself that your asking price is fair. > > I must have looked 25 boats in my search over 2 years. Almost non of the > for sale by owner boats were in the condition described. I don't think any > of them, except one, were deliberately misrepresenting their boat. In > fact, I pretty much liked all of them. I think it was an emotional > assessment that led them to either not > disclose something or overstate condition. > > On the other hand, the brokers want to move boats. They know an over > priced boat is going to sit and sit. There is nothing in it for them to > over price a boat. I had brokers tell me about blistering and soft spots > right over the phone. they didn't want to waste their time meeting, > showing, and opening up a boat if it wasn't as described. I walked away > disappointed from for sale by owner boats way more often than brokered > boats. > > I got to a point that if the description did not give the age of the > sails, they needed replaced. It seemed that, if anyone bought sails within > the previous 12, or so, years, they listed the year they were purchased. > My research made clear that sails are generally completely bagged out by > 10 years unless serviced and resewn. Then 15 years might be > your usable life. Bagged out sails really make for unexpected reactions to > the wind. If you are looking at a reputedly tender boat, bagged out sails > will certainly make it WAY more tender. It's the shape that goes, not the > material. I ended up buying new sails for both of my boats and I'm glad I > did. New sails just handle the wind and the gusts better. > > Another thing I noticed was that broker listed boats, where the broker > actually returned calls, were, generally, more fairly priced. I went out > hunting a few times because some of the un-returned calls were on boats > that looked great in the adds but, upon finding them on my own, I > understood the un-returned calls. > > So, I just kept looking and looking and looking until something felt right. > > Anyway, those are my insights and experiences. worth every bit of $0.02 > American or Canadian or Australian for that matter, I think! > > Danny > Lolita > 1973 Viking 33 > Westport Point, MA > > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Stevan Plavsa <stevanpla...@gmail.com> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Another boat > Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:36:04 -0400 > > Keep looking and don't settle. I got my 32 for 18k, that's right in your > ballpark. I was originally looking for 27s and 29s but I didn't find any > that were reasonably priced or even in reasonable shape. I went to look at > the 32 on a whim because it was the closest boat to me, and a broker boat > no less .. something I'de been avoiding up to that point. I had driven to > NY to look at boats on the south shore of Lake Ontario, not a complete > waste of time because it helped me compare and understand the market > better.� > > And you know what? The 32, literally 5 minutes from my house, was easily > in way better shape than any of the boats I'de looked at up to that point. > I was sold on it instantly. It was more boat than I hoped for and it was in > reach. Life is short and I can be pretty impulsive so I made an offer, had > it surveyed and bought the boat. I think the PO was happy to get the 18k > and I think he was happy to deal with me, we got along great. Some other > guy was in line before me but he was a huge hassle for the seller. I lucked > out, the PO was a great guy. > > �I don't race so my requirements may be different than yours. My boat is a > freshwater boat and it surveyed well. The sails were worn out and I just > spent $1600 (shipping in!) all told on a genoa from Rolly Tasker, it's a > great sail and an incredible value. The main is still usable and will be > for a couple of years yet. Canvas is still good, not great, but doesn't > need replacing. .... but I have spent a lot. I've spent money refurbishing > the head/tanks/freshwater/wiring/instruments/stereo/solar and the list goes > on. A boat that has had that stuff done is worth more, but then, if you do > it yourself it's really YOUR boat. My boat is MY boat! I EARNED it because > I fixed the shit out of it!� > > > Steve > Suhana, C&C 32 > Toronto > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Knowles Rich <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote: > >> How about having a peek at my LF 38 just to get another picture? >> >> Rich Knowles >> Indigo. LF 38 >> Halifax NS >> >> >> On 2013-08-01, at 20:27, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > Thanks for all the comments. >> > >> > Danny - Yes - I'm aware the "good condition" sails and the "year or 2" >> left in the canvas are pointing at need for replacement before long. �Guy >> selling the boat seems pretty straight, so I don't think he's over valuing >> the sails and they are totally shot. >> > As for the Nada value and the price - it is my understanding the NADA >> value is US based, boats locally list for a lot more than that. �Not much I >> can do other than buy a boat in the US and ship/sail it back. �As Mike >> noted - the cost of that adds up quickly. �Rough quote to ship a 30 back >> from NY was over $6000 by land. �I could have it sailed back for $2000, but >> I'd still have the expense of going down to look and having to pay for >> required repairs at a unfamiliar yard before it could sail home. >> > >> > Bob's example of a good condition 29 for $13500 - plus the cradle ends >> up being ~$15500. Then add the cost of getting it home (either I take a >> week off work or I pay to have it sailed back) - total $17-18000. �He >> likely has better sails but the price is pretty close in the end. >> > >> > In this case the boat has a pretty good trailer - value of ~ $2000, >> saving me the cost of buying a cradle. �Another 29-2 for sale locally is >> listed at $26000 with racing sails. �30's listed for $22-30000 (at the >> cheaper end they are in rough shape, needing new sails and deck work). >> > >> > Having looked at this boat I think I'd be happy to get it for $17000 - >> but I doubt he'll sell it for that. �Maybe I'm off in my value because all >> the boat prices are listed so high and the actual selling prices are much >> lower. >> > >> > Stevan - I had my eye on a nice 32 - but it sold (apparently in >> brilliant shape and sold for ~$30000). �I'd consider anything from a 29 to >> a 33. �Still trying to keep costs down (total purchase and up-keep) while >> finding a boat big enough to enjoy with the kids. 29 is the smallest I >> think that could work. �When I was on a 33 2weeks ago it seemed huge >> inside, yet not much more useable space. >> > >> > In the end my local options are limited and the prices are higher than >> areas with a lot more population. �I could buy cheaper but most seem to >> need more work. �I could travel, but that adds costs. �For a good looking >> boat that fits my needs and my eye, I'll pay a bit extra for ease of >> getting it local, but don't want to get fleeced. �Hopefully I can convince >> him that my price is fair, but I expect he'll think I'm low-balling. >> > >> > Thanks for the advice >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > --------------------- >> > �Dr. Mark Bodnar >> > B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C) >> > Bedford Chiropractic >> > www.bedfordchiro.ca >> > --------------------- >> > >> > There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. >> > �- George Santayana >> > >> > On 01/08/2013 9:48 AM, Hoyt, Mike wrote: >> >> It will cost a lot more than 4000 to get the LIS boat to canada. >> �Cradle >> >> alone is 1500. �You will have to ship the 29 by road and that will be >> >> pricey. �The local boat is a serious bargain compared to the US one. >> >> This is more true if the trailer is road worthy and not junk >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr. >> >> Mark Bodnar >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:30 PM >> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> >> Subject: Stus-List Another boat >> >> >> >> >> >> Seriously looking at another boat. �Checked out a local C&C 29 mkII on >> >> Sunday. >> >> >> >> >> http://novascotia.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-sailboats-C >> >> -C-29-MK-II-W0QQAdIdZ474384947 >> >> >> >> Overall the boat looked good. �The paint job on the hull was rough >> >> (needs a good sanding and new bottom coat). >> >> >> >> The boat is on a trailer - which makes it easier to move the 90 min >> >> drive home, and the trailer allows for easier yard management (assuming >> >> the hoist can get the boat high enough to put it to bed). >> >> He reports the sails in "good shape" (but no spinnaker), engine >> >> supposedly runs well (not in water to test), hull looks good with no >> >> dimples or dings (although there is some minor damage at the stern >> where >> >> >> >> someone likely backed into a slip too hard), teak and holly sole is a >> >> bit rough (no mold but finish is beat up), dodger and sail cover >> >> reported to "have a year or 2 left in them", cushions ok (few years >> left >> >> >> >> in fabric) >> >> >> >> The seller is asking $22500. �Maybe offer $17000-18000 firm? >> >> >> >> (I have had a few emails with a new list member, Bob Dryer, looking to >> >> sell a C&C 29 II in Long Island sound for $14500 --- but that's a long >> >> way away, hard to look at the boat plus the cost of getting it back and >> >> the fact that I'd have to buy a cradle - all together, if I can get a >> >> local boat for $4000 the price is pretty even) >> >> >> >> NADA average value of a 1983 C&C 29 II is $13000 >> >> ----------------- >> >> Also - Thinking of looking at a Cal 9.2, 1982, listed at $20000 >> >> >> http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-sailboats-Cal- >> >> 9-2-Sailboat-Price-Reduced-W0QQAdIdZ493465591 >> >> (NADA value at $13800) >> >> Plus another Cal 9.2 listed at $15K (but no pictures). >> >> >> >> Any thoughts? �I'm not familiar with the Cal boats. �Reading online the >> >> comments are that the Cal is more tender and that the diesel is raw >> >> water cooled (which can lead to more issues as they age). Overall >> online >> >> >> >> comments are not positive - seems the design may play to the worst >> parts >> >> >> >> of the IOR rules. Also some negative comments about decks etc. >> >> >> >> I don't want a poorly behaved boat that I can't manage in gusty winds >> or >> >> >> >> something that will ruin sailing for the kids --- maybe I'm answering >> my >> >> >> >> own thoughts on the Cal? Can't say I like the way the pinched rear end >> >> looks either! >> >> >> >> Any thoughts appreciated, >> >> Mark >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > >
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