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Today's Topics:
1. remove head sink on c n c 32? (McElwreath, Daniel)
2. tight reaching (Pete Shelquist)
3. Re: tight reaching (Josh Muckley)
4. Re: tight reaching (Chuck S)
5. Re: tight reaching (cenel...@aol.com)
6. Re: tight reaching (Andrew Burton)
7. Re: Stus-Maine Cruise (Richard N. Bush)
8. Re: Stus-Maine Cruise (davidrisch75)
9. Re: tight reaching (Dennis C.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0000
From: "McElwreath, Daniel" <mcelwrea...@wpunj.edu>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List remove head sink on c n c 32?
Message-ID:
<74ac7c951a8a93469c6e9f035d118c56223e6...@exchmbx1.unv.campus.wpunj.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Before going in the water this Spring I replaced all the waste hose and
ran thru the vanity in head. This week I had to rebuild the par shower
drain pump so I had to remove that. My question: Can the head sink be
removed to allow access? Working thru the small vanity door is an
absolute BEAR. I have been reluctant to try and put the pump back, only
because it is such a pain. I was even thinking of cutting the vanity
wall out, including the little door, and then reglassing when finished.
But I know what that would look like. Thanks for any advice. Dan Mc on
Tively II in City Island, NY
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 12:01:51 -0500
From: "Pete Shelquist" <pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID: <002201cfa9bc$779960c0$66cc2240$@shelqu...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight
reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A number
of
boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us pretty well in
those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails differently and am
looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber
hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:44:34 -0400
From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
To: "C&C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>, Pete Shelquist
<pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID:
<CA+zaCRBNo1O5vTdN=fcyljdw-ahpkam9gyu_rjsrbm0-jhm...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
How much backstay? How much babystay? How tight was the outhaul and
halyards? Speed bubble in the main? How much heel? How much rudder?
How
much weight on board? Crew hiking out? When was the bottom last
cleaned?
What type of paint? You might need to come off the wind just a few
degrees
and/or let the sails breath just a bit.
At 10-15 kts you should have been able to reach hull speed...~6-7kts. If
not then something was wrong. You might even want to consider a #2 if
you
were being blown over too much.
As you can see there is just no simple answer. Keep racing and you'll
learn all of those minute characteristics.
Happy to discuss off list.
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jul 27, 2014 1:02 PM, "Pete Shelquist via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty
well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently
and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber
hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:10:39 +0000 (UTC)
From: Chuck S <cscheaf...@comcast.net>
To: Pete Shelquist <pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>, "CNC boat owners,
cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID:
<1220713319.33262353.1406488239329.javamail.r...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Here are a few things to consider:
Examine the PHRF Ratings of your competition to see if they are simply
faster designs. http://www.phrfne.org/page/567
Using New England ratings, your boat, a C&C 37 (1984) rates 105
C&C 39, PHRF 102
C&C 38, PHRF 102
Sabre 36, PHRF 117
Tarten Ten, PHRF 126
You may have trouble beating the bigger boats, but you should stay ahead
of the Tarten 10 and the Sabre 36? If the smaller boats are catching you,
it may be due to their boat bottoms being smoother (burnished Baltiplate)
or better sails?
I find 12 knots is the threshold when all boats achieve hullspeed in all
directions and many boats reach faster than their PHRF ratings would
imply. At 15 knots, older sails that can't be flattened, start creating
more drag but are less critical in reaching mode.
Barber hauling to the toe rail when reaching can open the slot and also
steady the clew so the sail flaps less, maintaining pressure and power in
the sail. I typically rig a snatchblock on the toerail and run a 30'
length of 5/16" line thru it with a caribiner on one end. The caribiner
gets clipped to the clew when used and clipped to the lifeline when not
needed. The tail is brought back to whichever winch is convenient. I rig
these before leaving the dock. You have to get your crew to see some
success with the rig before they will accept rigging them. To pull the
sail out to the toerail, I clip on the caribiner thru the clew and
tension the line, easing the sheet, until I like the shape. Sometimes I
keep the tension on both or the sheet is eased completely and the toe
rail line takes the whole strain. The sheets remain tied to the clew, and
the barberhauler needs to be unclipped before tacking, and some crew do
not like having to remember this task.
Trimming the main to control heel : Your boat has a very short boom and I
wouldn't presume to know how to trim it for close reaching but would
think it plays a role in controlling heel, while your genoa is the real
powerhouse? The telltales on the main's leech should be streaming. The
main trimmer may have to play the traveller constantly to maintain heel
and speed in gusts?
Boats with straighter waterlines like Tarten 10 seem faster when reaching
than boats with curved waterlines, IOR shape. Our boat is very different,
but I notice we excel in the lighter stuff 8 to 10 knots, especially
upwind. Flat water and 6 knots, we can generate our own wind when
pointing while other boats struggle. Clean bottom and good sails make a
difference in these conditions.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
----- Original Message -----
From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 1:01:51 PM
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe
rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 16:31:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: cenel...@aol.com
To: pete.shelqu...@comcast.net, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID: <8d177f0d6a7fcb7-1ee0-38...@webmail-m210.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
One idea not mentioned yet, perhaps because it is too obvious, is
constant headsail adjustment, assuming the main is set properly.
When I am not close-hauled (upwind or reaching), I steer a course angle
or position on the horizon and have the head sail trimmer
CONSTANTLY adjusting the headsail for good shape in the puffs and lulls,
tell tales streaming, etc. using the boat speed as a measure of his
success.
The headsail trimmer is really driving the boat with adjustments for the
puffs and lulls while the helmsman keeps the boat
going in a fixed direction. In 10-15 we would have our 'heavy #1' carbon
up, board fully down and be shooting for our hull speed of ~ 7+ knots.
Close reaching is definitely not a set it and forget it racing mode. For
long races, we have to switch the trimmer because the concentration and
winch trimming involved can be exhausting.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 1:02 pm
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe
rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
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at:
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 16:42:25 -0400
From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
To: "cenel...@aol.com" <cenel...@aol.com>, "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID: <b58c6bc1-2b1e-423c-8c77-a790a56f2...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Certainly move the lead all the way outboard if you can still trim the
sail with it there. You'll open up the slot and the boat will stand up
better.
I think I'd be inclined to err on the side of too much sail on a reach in
order to power through the lulls.
Ease the back stay a bit, which also opens the slot, and ease the jib
halyard to keep the draft far enough aft when the headstay is slack.
Maybe a little less vang on the main to match the twist in the genoa and
keep the telltales flying. Then have your crew hike hard and trim the
sails constantly while you drive arrow-straight.
Andy
Peregrine
C&C 40
(currently Portland Maine beginning a cruise)
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260
On Jul 27, 2014, at 16:31, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
One idea not mentioned yet, perhaps because it is too obvious, is
constant headsail adjustment, assuming the main is set properly.
When I am not close-hauled (upwind or reaching), I steer a course angle
or position on the horizon and have the head sail trimmer
CONSTANTLY adjusting the headsail for good shape in the puffs and lulls,
tell tales streaming, etc. using the boat speed as a measure of his
success.
The headsail trimmer is really driving the boat with adjustments for the
puffs and lulls while the helmsman keeps the boat
going in a fixed direction. In 10-15 we would have our 'heavy #1' carbon
up, board fully down and be shooting for our hull speed of ~ 7+ knots.
Close reaching is definitely not a set it and forget it racing mode. For
long races, we have to switch the trimmer because the concentration and
winch trimming involved can be exhausting.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 1:02 pm
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe
rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
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Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
Email address:
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page at:
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:27:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard N. Bush" <bushma...@aol.com>
To: a.burton.sai...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus-Maine Cruise
Message-ID: <8d177f8c53fb553-9e8-a...@webmail-va096.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Andy, will you be sending a blog or other info about your cruise? (the
answer should be yes) thanks!
Richard
1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River Mile 584 RBD;
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cenelson <cenel...@aol.com>; cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Certainly move the lead all the way outboard if you can still trim the
sail with it there. You'll open up the slot and the boat will stand up
better.
I think I'd be inclined to err on the side of too much sail on a reach in
order to power through the lulls.
Ease the back stay a bit, which also opens the slot, and ease the jib
halyard to keep the draft far enough aft when the headstay is slack.
Maybe a little less vang on the main to match the twist in the genoa and
keep the telltales flying. Then have your crew hike hard and trim the
sails constantly while you drive arrow-straight.
Andy
Peregrine
C&C 40
(currently Portland Maine beginning a cruise)
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260
On Jul 27, 2014, at 16:31, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
One idea not mentioned yet, perhaps because it is too obvious, is
constant headsail adjustment, assuming the main is set properly.
When I am not close-hauled (upwind or reaching), I steer a course angle
or position on the horizon and have the head sail trimmer
CONSTANTLY adjusting the headsail for good shape in the puffs and lulls,
tell tales streaming, etc. using the boat speed as a measure of his
success.
The headsail trimmer is really driving the boat with adjustments for the
puffs and lulls while the helmsman keeps the boat
going in a fixed direction. In 10-15 we would have our 'heavy #1' carbon
up, board fully down and be shooting for our hull speed of ~ 7+ knots.
Close reaching is definitely not a set it and forget it racing mode. For
long races, we have to switch the trimmer because the concentration and
winch trimming involved can be exhausting.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 1:02 pm
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe
rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
Email address:
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page at:
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_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
Email address:
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:55:38 -0400
From: davidrisch75 <davidrisc...@msn.com>
To: "Richard N. Bush" <bushma...@aol.com>,
<a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>, <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus-Maine Cruise
Message-ID: <blu404-eas157106da5b832426ab51d9fda...@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
As a kid I learned, and still adhere to the rule that when sheets are
cracked and racing never cleat sheets. And when in doubt let it out...I
find 80% of folks overtrim.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Richard N. Bush
via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> </div><div>Date:07/27/2014 5:28 PM
(GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: a.burton.sai...@gmail.com,
cnc-list@cnc-list.com </div><div>Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus-Maine Cruise
</div><div>
</div>
Andy, will you be sending a blog or other info about your cruise? (the
answer should be yes) thanks!
Richard
1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River Mile 584 RBD;
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cenelson <cenel...@aol.com>; cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Certainly move the lead all the way outboard if you can still trim the
sail with it there. You'll open up the slot and the boat will stand up
better.
I think I'd be inclined to err on the side of too much sail on a reach in
order to power through the lulls.
Ease the back stay a bit, which also opens the slot, and ease the jib
halyard to keep the draft far enough aft when the headstay is slack.
Maybe a little less vang on the main to match the twist in the genoa and
keep the telltales flying. Then have your crew hike hard and trim the
sails constantly while you drive arrow-straight.
Andy
Peregrine
C&C 40
(currently Portland Maine beginning a cruise)
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260
On Jul 27, 2014, at 16:31, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
One idea not mentioned yet, perhaps because it is too obvious, is
constant headsail adjustment, assuming the main is set properly.
When I am not close-hauled (upwind or reaching), I steer a course angle
or position on the horizon and have the head sail trimmer
CONSTANTLY adjusting the headsail for good shape in the puffs and lulls,
tell tales streaming, etc. using the boat speed as a measure of his
success.
The headsail trimmer is really driving the boat with adjustments for the
puffs and lulls while the helmsman keeps the boat
going in a fixed direction. In 10-15 we would have our 'heavy #1' carbon
up, board fully down and be shooting for our hull speed of ~ 7+ knots.
Close reaching is definitely not a set it and forget it racing mode. For
long races, we have to switch the trimmer because the concentration and
winch trimming involved can be exhausting.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 1:02 pm
Subject: Stus-List tight reaching
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe
rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page
at:
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_______________________________________________
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page at:
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_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:45:13 -0500
From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com>
To: Pete Shelquist <pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>, CnClist
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List tight reaching
Message-ID:
<canir+ytrmyzxutmszkk2yfhd24ohauay2-ewbpncqhe0izo...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Actually, you might mean you tried outboard sheeting, not a Barber
hauler.
On Touche' we go to outboard sheeting very quickly to open the slot.
As soon as the headsail clew lifts above the lifelines and the jibsheet
touches the lifelines, we're rigging a snatch block to the toe rail and
attaching the outboard sheet. Our outboard sheet has a snapshackle for
easy attachment to and release from the headsail clew. We lead it to our
secondary winches. We leave the jibsheet inactive on the primaries ready
to go if we need to trim in to go up.
We locate the snatch block slightly forward of the jib car.
We ease luff tensions to move drafts aft. Set the vang to keep the top
batten parallel to centerline. Leech tell tales should be streaming aft.
In the heavier air conditions you described, I'd be thinking about
trimming
the main with the vang to maintain heel. Twist off the top to keep the
boat on its feet and the keel lifting. Play the traveler if you
experience
weather helm.
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I recently had a mid-distance race in which a majority of the race was
tight reaching in flat water, 10-15 breeze. We had our heavy #1 up. A
number of boats (C&C39, C&C38, Sabre 36, Tarten Ten) worked up on us
pretty
well in those conditions. I obviously need to trim the sails
differently
and am looking for suggestions.
We mostly eased the sheet and moved the car forward, but we did try
barber
hauling. We did not try bringing the clew right out to the toe rail.
Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
1984 C&C 37
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