Hi David,
If I may try to clarify things a bit here...
substitute "forestay length" for "forestay tension" in Dwight's message below.
As others have pointed out (Dennis' message is a
good guide) forestay tension is more or less
adjusted for sailing (or APPARENT wind) conditions.
Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Today's activity is a pre-cruise boat scrub and
make sure the refrig still works. Although the
bilge is still a nice temperature to cool pale ale, so no distress there.
'Round Thetis Island race next weekend.
At 05:15 AM 29/04/2015, you wrote:
David
Initial set on the forestay tension should give
some aft rake on the mast. In calm waters and
after you have the mast plumb, hang a weight
(say 5-10 lbs) on the main halyard just above
the boom...that weight should hang out anywhere
from 6 inches to a foot aft of the mast...adjust
forestay tension so you get something like that
before applying additional back stay tension.
then you can apply back stay tension to induce
more aft rake and if you have a gage on your
backstay adjuster you can use that to see how
rake varies with tension or you can do as Dennis
described for what he does on Touche with a
calibrated batten...If your boat has a strong
weather helm you may have too much aft
rake...you can achieve a lighter weather helm by
relaxing the forestay tension a bit
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:20 PM, David Knecht
via CnC-List <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dennis- I realize that you would generally
tighten the forestay with the backstay as the
wind increases. However, that assumes some
starting point of how much sag there is with no
backstay tension and it is that starting point
that I am unsure how to set. I am presuming that
there can be such a thing as too much sag
because the forestay turnbuckle is set too loose. Â Dave
On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Dennis C.
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Simple question. Complex answer.
Look at the shape of the headsail. Notably,
the amount of sag in the luff.Â
Forestay tension is primarily regulated by
backstay tension. There is no good guide for
pounds of force. Your headsail design and
age, choice of sail (#1, #2, #3), rig tune,
wind strength and sea state will influence forestay tension.
Forestay sag affects the depth of the
headsail. (Halyard or luff tension affects
the position of maximum draft.)Â Forestay sag
also affects the angle of entry of the
headsail. In light air or leftover seas,
increase sag (i.e. less tension.). In flatter
water and more breeze, decrease sag (more tension).Â
On Touche' we don't look at the gauge on the
hydraulic backstay adjuster. We have a dinghy
batten taped to the adjuster. The batten is
marked with different color tapes. We use it
as a general guide to reproduce tension based
on our experience with the boat and our
observation of the forestay and headsail shape. Our general guidelines are:
Green - light air or waves
Yellow - moderate breeze, some waves
Red - heavy breeze or flatter waters
Black - death, Holy Crap! Beam us up, Scotty! We're going to die!
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:33 PM, David Knecht
via CnC-List <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Speaking of forestay, what is the proper way to
determine the correct forestay tension? Â Â Dave
On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Tim Goodyear via
CnC-List <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Robert,
I think the only things missing from your
setup numbers are rake and pre-bend. Our
forestay length is also very easy to adjust (not that I do often).
Thanks,
Tim
On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:01 PM, robert via
CnC-List <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
What Dwight is referencing is a race we did
with a Kirby 25 and were embarrassed on the
race course. And we were especially bad on
starboard tack....we kept wondering all day
what was wrong....almost blaming one another
for our poor performance, e.g. you can't be
pointing high enough, you can't have my sails
trimmed.   After the race, first we
discovered the shroud turnbuckles were not
pinned.....I thought they were because I
thought I pinned them after I tensioned rig
tension. Dwight discovered by applying
Pythagorean's theorem that the top of the
mast was out of column by 18" to port. Any
wonder why the boat was not performing the way it/we previously did.
That never happened a second time!
The 32's rig is set at cap shrouds 1,300
lbs., lowers 1,200, intermediates 500
lbs., backstay at rest 1,000
lbs., babystay 600 lbs......haven't
measured the headstay tension but it is about
4" to 6"Â bowed with a 135% under power. Â
 And since I stopped racing, I have become
lazy and am just happy to have my mast in
column and the rig not bending/stressing the
boat, and go sailing almost every day during
our sailing season..... averaged over 100
days per season for the last 5 years on
AZURA....and that does not include a dozen or
so sails each season on other people's boats.
Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.
On 2015-04-28 7:15 PM, dwight veinot wrote:
Robert
I think you might have learned the hard way
about what rig tune means in that race we
had with the K25 when we got whooped big
time, especially on stbd tack...no good at
all if the mast isn't plumb, right???
I am not sure if anyone can feel tension as
accurately as the gage does it and the less
expensive Loos gage for wire rigging ain't
too bad either...i like it, at least it
tells me stbd is the same tension as port
but you have to use it right...everybody
here, don't ever underestimate the
importance of rig tune for performance, and
that means perfromance as a function of
expected wind strength and as wind strength
varies so does optimum rig tension on these
older boats, especially for pointing...y'all
have to find out the hard way by
experimenting with your own craft...a gage
is essential for that experiment...Rob has
the right gear for tuning rod rigging, he
sets his rig up year after year for what
works best on his 32, he doesn't race Azura
so he doesn't vary his optimum rig tension
for wind conditions all that ofeten, maybe a
little more tension when the heavy fall
winds hit here...no matter he likes what he
got and that's OK until another 32 on the
same point of sail blows him away...everyone
is still learning, me, you and him too, get
a gage and have some fun
experimenting...watch you angle to apparent
wind and your speed over ground on the GPS!!!
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:40 PM, robert via
CnC-List <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
On everything up top on the standing
rigging, I now use only SS cotter
pins.....this is because on several
occasions, and I can not explain how it
happened, the split rings
vanished. Luckily, nothing fell down
before the missing split ring was
detected. I have no explanation how the
split rings disappeared but I do know that
since being replaced with cotter pins, there has not been been a missing pin.
The thread Subject is "rig tuning"......on
that note I have rod rigging and a Loos RT10
tuning gauge is a must for me......I can't
pull on shrouds and tell how much tension is
there. Now someone will chime in and tell
me to measure my threads in the
turnbuckles. But how do you initially do
that without a reference point with the benefit of a gauge.Â
When we were campaigning our Kirby 25, we
made rig adjustments depending on the
conditions. We still used a Loos gauge to
take the guessing out of the equation.
I shouldn't admit this but I will.....on my
shroud turnbuckles, I use the small plastic
pull/lock strings (or whatever they are
called). Once I get my rig tuned early in
the Spring after a few sails, it stays that
way all season unless I adjust it after
periodic checking with the Loos gauge and sighting the mast, of course.
Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.
With the cover just removed and no launch date set yet.
Â
On 2015-04-28 2:02 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:
Tim,
How often do you make adjustments? Do you
have a tension gauge for rod rigging?
Joel
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Tim
Goodyear via CnC-List
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
I got those (wrap pins) last year - and am
very happy with them - no sharp edges, no
messing around with rigging tape to make adjustments.
Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Might give these a try too.
<http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C10918%7C2303303%7C2303306&id=2546248>http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|10918|2303303|2303306&id=2546248
On Apr 28, 2015 9:48 AM, "Pete Shelquist
via CnC-List" <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
A comment was made to me the other day that
if an insurance company sees split rings at
the rigs turnbuckles (vs cotter pins) that
coverage will be null and void. I found
nothing in my policy stating this detail.Â
Â
Anyone else ever hear of this?
Â
Thanks,
Pete
Â
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--
Joel
<tel:301%20541%208551>301 541 8551
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Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
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Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
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