Whether you do dip pole or end for end gybes, you would need a way to either disconnect the baby stay or move it back to the mast before you gybe. The baby stay is not needed when sailing off the wind. (My boat has a track, with the baby stay attached to a car, and a rope clutch holding the stay forward in heavy air, or in lumpy seas.)
Alan On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:29 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Thanks everyone for your input! Based on what was said, I'll agree that > what we have is a symmetrical spinnaker. At this point, there is no ring > nor a track on the front of the mast onto which to mount a slide car ring. > > There is also a babystay to contend with, which presumably would not allow > me to do the dip-pole approach, but having never done it, perhaps I'm not > visualizing the concept properly. > > At any rate, we're cruisers (though we love to cruise fast!), which means > that at least for now, we'll use the spinnaker as asymmetrical, and figure > it out from there. I have some friends that are due back from a cruise, > and I'm sure they have experience with both types, so that will help me > tremendously. > > Thank again, everyone, this list is invaluable! > > Bruce Whitmore > 1994 C&C 37/40+, "Astralis" > Madiera Beach, FL > (847) 404-5092 (mobile) > bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *To:* C&C <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN <trya...@alumni.usc.edu> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 2, 2017 2:57 AM > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List DQOTD - Cruising spinnaker - Luff v. Leach? > > Most of what Josh said is correct. However, all symmetrical spinnakers I > have seen have the numbers on both sides of the spinnaker, so you don't > have to be concerned about which side is port and which side is > starboard.Before you buy any necessary gear for the spinnaker, learn about > end for end gybes and dip pole gybes. People who do end for end gybes > swear that they are easier than dip pole gybes, and those who use dip pole, > swear that they are easier than end for end. I have done both, and I > prefer dip pole. They are safer, as you never have to disconnect the pole > from the mast during a gybe. Also the connection to the mast is stronger. > (I once had the ring on my mast track twist out of shape on a boat with > which I did end for end.) That's what caused me to switch to dip pole, and > I never regretted it. When I was getting new crew for my boat, none of > them had ever done dip pole gybes, but I trained them, and they are now > expert at it. If you're not going to race your boat, you can use the > spinnaker as though it were an A-sail, so you should learn about how an > A-sail is handled also. You didn't indicate what size boat you have. With > a smaller boat, end for end gybes are the way to go. At thirty feet, you > can go either way. At thirty-four feet and larger, I recommend dip pole. > Keep in mind, though, it's not the boat length that makes one a better > choice than the other. It's the size of the spinnaker. My previous boat > was an Ericson 2-30, with a tall mast. The spinnaker was 1,000 square > feet, and the boat was set up for dip pole gybes > > Alan Bergen > 35 Mk III Thirsty > Rose City YC > Portland, OR > > On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > It sounds like a symmetrical spinnaker. The luff and leach are the same > length... In fact they are interchangeable depending on the tack of the > boat. > > You'll need a spinnaker pole roughly equal to the "J" length (head stay to > the mast). The pole is set parallel/in line with the boom, jaws facing up > so that when they are opened the jaw can fall away from the mast ring and > the "guy" can fly up. The pole will have 2 bridles, one on top, one on > bottom. Both bridles will be anchored are the pole ends and will have a > ring fixed in the center. There isn't much need to have the bridles tight > so the rings may ride 12 to 24 inches above/below the pole. The top bridle > creates a way to lift the pole with a rope that exists the mast about > halfway up and below impediments such as a radar. This rope is called the > topping tift and is used to hold the pole horizontal. The bottom bridle is > attached to a rope that attaches to the foredeck directly below. This rope > is usually lead aft along the toe rail and cleated off. It is called thw > down haul and is used to prevent the outboard end of the pole from being > lifted up by the spinnaker and "flying away". The inboard end of the pole > attaches to a ring on a track mounted on the forward face of the mast. > Typically I try to raise the ring to about my height, this lifts the > inboard end of the pole - high but easy to reach. The topping lift can > then be used to lift and hold the rest of the pole horizontal as mentioned > above. Both jaws on the pole should have release lines wich extend ~3/4 of > the length and are anchored near the opposite end. This allows the > operator to open either jaw from nearly any location along the pole. > > The out board end of the pole gets the windward spinsheet which until the > next jibe will be called the "guy". The leeward spinsheet is just call the > sheet. Both of these lines are typically run through turning blocks near > the aft end of the toe rail which keep the lines lead outside of the life > lines and then fairlead them inside to a secondary winch. Trimming the guy > means keeping the pole perpendicular to the wind. Trimming the sheet means > letting it out until the windward sail edge (pole side) begins to curl - > too much curl? - sheet in. Every time you jibe you will sail dead down > wind ease the guy so that the pole is roughly at a 45° angle. The sheet > should be roughly matched. Standing infront of the mast facing forward the > foredeck operator will reach up to the mast ring, pull the jaw release for > the jaw in the ring. The pole is now supported by and free to pivot about > on the top and bottom bridles. What was the inboard jaw is now pushed out > towards what was the leeward side of the boat. The jaw is opened and what > was the sheet is hooked in the jaw. Next what was the outboard end jaw is > opened releasing what was the guy and that jaw is hooked to the mast ring. > The foredeck operator shouts "MADE!" so that the helm can finish the > maneuver by jibing the mainsail and the crew can trim the spinnaker. The > old guy is now the sheet and the old sheet is now the guy. The "leach" and > the "luff" have also swapped. > > Some setups include "twings" which are open cheak snatch blocks placed at > the widest part of the toe rail on each side of the boat. This holds the > guy down and helps prevent the pole from flying in addition to the down > haul. Early in the jibe (about the same time that the helm is turning dead > down wind) the guy is released from the twing, again windward side = guy. > After the pole is "MADE!" the new guy will be inserted into its respective > twing on the new windward side. > > Each sheet will probably need to be about twice the boat length. > > This is an end for end jibe and its easier to show than to explain and > easier to explain than to master. > > Oh, and the green stripe usually would indicate the starboard side of the > sail but that is just so that the front faces forward and numbers can be > read. Often sail makers will put red stripes on the port side and a yellow > stripe on the foot. This also help when packing the sail in a traditional > bag. Since you have a sock it is less needed. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > On Jul 1, 2017 8:33 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > OK, seems like a dumb question. We spread out the cruising spinnaker on > our lawn today, having not put it up before on our new (to us) C&C > 37/40+/. It is in a spinnaker sock. The sheets were in the bag, but not > attached to the sail. It is made by UK. Along one edge is a bright green > strip. It seems like that is the luff, rather than the leach, but I can't > tell for sure. There are no labels that I can see, nor an edge with a > cable or reinforced luff seemingly build in. Both sides seem to be the > same length. Do I have an asymmetrical spinnaker, and if I do, is the > green the leach or the luff? > > New to spinnakers, so your help would be greatly appreciated, > > Bruce Whitmore > > (847) 404-5092 (mobile) > bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > > ______________________________ _________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurra > y > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=KivZG0zGqP_LOKlX1VJZA0iA4zZEgdQx-1vwBi9GBaw&s=aoYncwhP73eEfAA-jv6rEbNkRRO8oOikynzr8crFuAU&e=> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://urldefense.proofpoint. > com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg& c= > clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN 0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r= > 9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f 1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=KivZG0zGqP_ > LOKlX1VJZA0iA4zZEgdQx- 1vwBi9GBaw&s=aoYncwhP73eEfAA- > jv6rEbNkRRO8oOikynzr8crFuAU&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=KivZG0zGqP_LOKlX1VJZA0iA4zZEgdQx-1vwBi9GBaw&s=aoYncwhP73eEfAA-jv6rEbNkRRO8oOikynzr8crFuAU&e=> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > > > -- > Alan Bergen > 35 Mk III Thirsty > Rose City YC > Portland, OR > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=8et2YiWUxV3Ngtt9uuuFERq83DnOX6Q0RTqR0bBuYhQ&s=56tQ0Y9RvkkeLkgEyzdui8K4ETd8lfS9odhTEUTUi0w&e=> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN > 0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m= > 8et2YiWUxV3Ngtt9uuuFERq83DnOX6Q0RTqR0bBuYhQ&s= > 56tQ0Y9RvkkeLkgEyzdui8K4ETd8lfS9odhTEUTUi0w&e= > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > -- Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR
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