All this talk about PHRF reminds me that, back in the day when a lot of C&C and other older model boat data was compiled, a typical course configuration where I sailed was a 15-mile triangle (five mile legs) in Lake Erie (consistent wind, more waves). The local fleet later went to a 15-mile modified gold cup configuration (three mile legs, more weather work), and then stopped doing regular lake racing in favor of racing in a protected bay (less wind consistency, less waves). Windward leeward courses in the bay are now fairly common. These changes make a big difference in how a boat sails to a rating that was established decades ago. If the original base rating was established with more reaching and less weather work, and now we are doing more weather work, the course itself penalizes boats like a 30-1.
Another issue is the quality of the sailing that occurred when the base rating was established. The 33-1, for example, was a very popular boat. Some of them were raced seriously, some not so seriously (the family dog on the bow). The base rating was established using all the data, not just the “serious” racing data. As a result, if a 33-1 is outfitted with new rags and a good crew, it can do very well with its rating. Too many variables to account for. From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 11:18 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Reviews and Adjustments There is not much consistency between PHRF districts on rating adjustments for items like sail measurements or prop type. That makes comparing the class PHRF ( SP - speed potential ) and individual boat PHRF ( ASP - adjusted speed potential ) difficult without knowing all the details. As an example ... PHRF-LO has numerous adjustments, both penalties and credits. On the main sail we measure HW ( head width ), MGT ( mid girth top - 7/8 ), MGU ( mid girth upper - 3/4) and MGM ( mid girth - 1/2 ). The hoist ( P ) and foot ( E ) are from tables. The measured sail area ( MAmsd ) is compared to the standard sail area ( MAstd ) to get a ratio which then gives a penalty or credit. Of note is that the standard main sail area assumes a lot of roach. MAIN AREA Standard (MAstd): HWstd = 0.04 * E or 0.5’ (whichever is greater) MGT = 0.22 * E MGUstd = 0.38 * E MGMstd = 0.65 * E MAStd= (P/8)*(2*E +3*MGMstd+1.5*MGUstd+MGTstd+0.5*HWstd) MAIN AREA Measured (MAmsd) : MAMsd= (P/8)*(2*E +3*MGM+1.5*MGU+MGT+0.5*HW) The ratio will provide the percent sail area for adjustment of the ASP. https://www.phrf-lo.org/images/Meetings/MainsailTable_2017.pdf Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 From: Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: 12/16/2019 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Reviews and Adjustments PHRF of the Chesapeake gives credit for genoas under 140%. 140 is the same as 155 for ratings purposes. There is an adjustment for folding/feathering props, but I think it is only 6 seconds. On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 1:46 PM Gary Nylander via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: PHRF of the Chesapeake assumes you have a prepared boat. That means good to excellent sails, a crack crew, clean bottom, folding or feathering prop, and so forth. They used to assume a 155% genoa, but I have seen some adjustments for smaller or larger (class boats). They are also coming up with a double handed fleet, cruising classes, and so forth – some of which fall outside of PHRF. Any way to get boats out of their slips. Gary From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> On Behalf Of CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 9:20 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER <cscheaf...@comcast.net>; Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca> Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Reviews and Adjustments My two cents; With hundreds of boats to rate, I wouldn't expect the rating committees to make any rating adjustment unless there was a serious complaint or an appeal to get their attention, and some good solid race results to make a judgement. Someone I know asked for an appeal to raise his rating and was denied. He had to answer a list of questions that revealed he had older sails, inexperienced crew, and never scrubbed the bottom of his boat during the racing season. The rating assumes you have properly prepared the boat to race, have decent sails, and knowledgeable crew and clean bottom. Does anyone race in a fleet where they give a handicap for solo sailors? I heard San Francisco gives 13 seconds. Chuck, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R On December 16, 2019 at 12:08 AM Randy Stafford via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Thank you all for the responses on this subject. I got information I was looking for: * The Gulf Yachting Association PHRF Committee conducts an annual review. The minutes of the most recent annual review show +3/-3 adjustments based on performance. * The Narragansett Bay PHRF Committee reviews boat performance regularly. Its principles state that handicaps are adjusted on the basis of the boat's performance. * At Shawn Wright's club (somewhere in British Columbia), the club handicapper provides a rating and it is reviewed after each series of races based on results. * In PHRF Lake Ontario, classes that consistently perform differently from their rating get reviewed by PHRF-LO Central Council every year. _______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray -- Joel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
_______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
