On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 7:50 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
I too stick with the Java-centric theme. I don't want to seem overly anti other programming languages, its just that IMO j-c is better of as just Java. a) Code standards, guidelines, packaging, naming, integration with JDK - all are very Java specific, and are usefully captured in the charter. b) j-c is already very busy, and if we add BCEL and perhaps some others, (which we probably should), it could get busier. c) There is no easy division within j-c. I've tried on many occasions to find one, and always fail. However there is the potential for some to leave* Stephen
I agree with all of these points, and others made by Dirk and Morgan elsewhere on this thread related to the Java community aspects of Jakarta in general and Jakarta Commons in particular. One thing that I would personally be very sad to lose in j-c is the regular comments and discussion from Java developers (many from other Jakarta projects) on Java language-related issues that come up frequently. If we were to lose or dillute the Java-identity of j-c, I am afraid that the signal to noise ratio on the lists might get too low to maintain the interest of some of these folks.
One more point. While I have not participated much in the general@ and pmc@ discussions of where Jakarta may be headed, I think that we can solve the oversight and organization problems without turning all projects into TLPs and I would like to see Jakarta maintain its identity and community, with j-c an important part of both.
+1
+i. I want it to maintain the community, but I want Jakarta to be the first to move to Brian Behlendorf's email a year ago in which he foresaw sourceforge-like foundry's. I'd like Jakarta to shirk all of its projects and set itself up as a Java portal onto Apache.
Don't know exactly what this means, but I don't think that I agree with it. If "to shirk all of its projects" means to make all current projects TLPs and then to turn Jakarta into some sort of Java-oriented incubator, I see this as essentially dissolving Jakarta. To me Jakarta *is* the community of users and volunteers involved with Jakarta projects.
If J-C doesn't merge in with A-C, I also can see it as a part of that Java portal, and would need to mix with the J parts in Incubator as well.
I don't see j-c as primarily either a "foundry" or "incubator," though there is a healthy amount of that kind of thing going on in the sandbox (which serves a very different purpose from the apache-incubator, IMHO). I see the heart of j-c to be the packages. Many of these are mature and very highly reused components that *lots* of other projects and users depend on. We need to keep this in mind. I would like to keep the j-c community intact and focussed on the scope in the charter (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html).
If Jakarta gets dismantled or turned into some sort of foundry/incubator, I think that it is very important that we keep j-c going as a reliable source of high-quality reusable Java components maintained by a strong community of users and volunteers. If that means becoming an Apache TLP, so be it. I don't personally see the need to fundamentally transform or dismantle Jakarta at this time, but if the predominant sentiment is that we need to do that, my most important concern is that we keep the j-c community focussed on what we do best -- creating and maintaining reusable java components.
Phil
That's my future view for Jakarta. To make it mean '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' as most current users think [though that will start to change next year], and to get rid of the other parts. It would be optional though, Cocoon doesn't have to join etc, and it can quite happily have a set of 'community rules' that people would adhere to, or optionally adhere to.
Basically to stop Jakarta being a container and make it a category. Allow things in multiple containers.
Hen
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