On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Gnangarra <[email protected]> wrote:
> this discussion appears to be missing some information specifically a link > to what is being discussed > > I checked > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Joseph_Stalin.jpgthat > doesnt reflect what Tim is referring to neither does > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Rush_limbaugh.jpgwhich > are the only discussion that have been linked in the email I've > recieved thru commons-l, > > If this discussion is going to start throwing around solutions that > include Commons admins having their tools removed by the foundation, and > changes to way in which commons chooses its admin and the skill > requirements of these people then we should have access to the discussion > that triggered it. > > As for not reading OTRS tickets unless you have access you cant read them, > OTRS agents dont normally(privacy requirements) release the information on > the ticket so Commons Admins must "assume good faith" in what we are being > told. The Stalin discussion stated that "*OTRS confirmation* - We have > received an email from the son of Margaret Bourke-White who is the current > copyright holder giving permission for the photograph to be used" at that > point every commons admin would close the discussion on the assumption of > good faith in the OTRS agents comment. > > When images are transferred from Flickr the only decision is verification > of license, permissions arent something that can be considered if the > uploader askes the author they then forward the permission to OTRS so again > Commons Admins need to AGF to accuse admins of "*Part of the solution, > ..... If the community is unable to do it, the office should do it. Admins > are being negligent, collude with breaches of personality rights, and > enable anonymous individuals to engage in media licensing fraud, whether > intentionally or by gross incompetence, as here for example*:" when they > dont have access to the information is disgusting these people are > volunteers the Stalin discussion followed Commons policy the decision being > made were based on available information there was no collusion there was > no incompetence intentional or otherwise. When other information was > presented to dispute the decisons the discussion reopened and closed > according to the new information that is fine example of how Commons > discussions work > > The solution here isnt to alter how Commons admins work, nor how they are > chosen the issue here is ensuring OTRS agents have the knowledge to process > permission tickets so that admins can act on requests. When I started on > OTRS there was no training, or guidence on how to use the system I was left > to my own devices to learn to answer tickets In the time I was there the > OTRS wiki was started up, I was dropped off the OTRS list for not being > active so I cant comment on whats changed since nor how the OTRS wiki works > now. > > Trolling is problem on all wiki's as are witch hunts the system we have > works very well, yes it has flaws including AGF and Trust but we cant work > without those, we cant work without admins either yes Commons needs more > but doesnt every wiki. Whats needed is to drop the creation of policy thru > witchhunt proccesses because we are always going to have issue with images. > the current processes work well in most cases, but future changes to way we > get images from flickr are going to stretch those processess both on > Commons and thru OTRS we need ways to deal with the effect of these changes. > You must've missed SJ's earlier e-mail, where he linked this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/ObiWolf_Lesbian_Images Tim's descriptions of the deletion discussions referred specifically to the ObiWolf images. Reading those discussions and posts to this list, I don't think you can conclude "the system we have works very well" - at least not in those cases.
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