On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:43:22 -0700 Dave O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> I said this in the channel but you weren't there. > > We should be going forward with specs, not backward. By the time the > next revisions come there'll be a whole new generation of hardware so > the freerunner will then be lagging even more. Someone mentioned getting > a faster cpu and my 2c are that I think that that's a much better > option. But it sounds like you've already made the decision. i'd love a better cpu - better memory bus and much more. right now the only thing we have is gta03 - same cpu as freerunner etc etc. just different gsm subsystem (2g/edge) and no glamo (dumb 2442 fb), new case, added camera. don't get me wrong - i've been running high res as long as i have been able to. i went to 1600x1200 as soon as mu hardware could. i have insisted on laptops with 1600x1200 or higher - 1920x1200 ones too. i use tiny fonts and high dpi screens. i personally love high resolution, but i have noticed a tendency to be the only one in the room who can read it. i'd love an 800x480 300dpi screen - they exist. i was playing with a phone last week with one on it. but practical factors may just not allow it. if you wish to find a reliable supplier for us of such hardware at a good price, then go for it, but practical product concerns may mean it just can't happen. same with cpu speeds and graphics. we are in a world where to get gfx support to run such high resolutions means we need to have closed drivers. and that is not somewhere where we are going. we make compromises. you won't get the best of components in every possible way due to the nature of what is being done here. we try where we can, but somewhere compromises will need to be made. what people have been saying here is that they have excellent eyesight and can see a tin 2.8" vga screen well enough to make use of it. like really see the difference and be able to do things with that res that would be not possible, impractical or painful otherwise. i've fairly amazed at the number of people saying their eyesight is so good as it is in stark contrast to my experience over the years, but ok - i'll take it for what it is. i didn't know how many people really could see the difference AND make use of it. i'm surprised. > On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 08:52 +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:43:51 +0200 Peter Kraker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > babbled: > > > > not going to happen - that's 2 product runs. expensive to maintain. gta03 is > > vga right now - unless there is a very big push to qvga. it is possible to > > go, and not hard at all. it would save costs on hardware, but it won't > > change at this stage. but beyond gta03 it's an open book and who knows - we > > may likely pull out a lower res screen. it is in fact very likely something > > will be a lower res in later products as there is just so much more choice > > there below vga. > > > > > How painfull would it be, to sell GTA03 with QVGA and GTA03V version > > > with VGA screen, if those two are indeed very similar ? I'm certain > > > there are enough of us geeks ready to give up some glitter for pixels. > > > > > > Regards > > > Peter Kraker > > > > > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) pravi: > > > > On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:56:22 +0800 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:15 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" > > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>> we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are > > > >>>> given. too > > > >>>> bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm > > > >>>> trying to > > > >>>> dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just > > > >>>> want higher > > > >>>> specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case > > > >>>> scenarios that > > > >>>> make real sense. :) > > > >>>> > > > >>> This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single > > > >>> potential customer who says > > > >>> "I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been > > > >>> several here on this list, > > > >>> if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that. > > > >>> > > > >> no. it is absolutely not enough. why? i am asked by product management > > > >> to do things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). > > > >> they come first. you users come second. in the end if product > > > >> management want X they get X. and if for X to happen we go QVGA, then > > > >> so be it. you guys lose. i need a very very very strong argument > > > >> against going to qvga - and that means product management need to drop > > > >> a feature. > > > > > > > > note - i am talking hypothetically. i don't want to discuss vga as a > > > > product management feature - not if you like it or not, or it looks > > > > pretty. i am looking for hard cold technical facts. what does it stop > > > > being possible > > > > > > > > i know: > > > > > > > > 1. u may need to scroll more > > > > 2. viewing of images/data that just have more pixel content will need > > > > to be zoomed out and have less display fidelity > > > > 3. some things requiring text displays like 80x24 terminals will be not > > > > readable at all at font sizes able to fit on the display (they will jut > > > > blur away all character details). > > > > > > > > with almost everything i can think of you can get by qvga by: > > > > > > > > 1. scaling data > > > > 2. changing font sizes > > > > 3. re-arranging ui elements etc. > > > > > > > > no matter what you need to do this even for vga - if coming fro xga > > > > land or better. it's just a more extreme case. > > > > > > > > no mater what at vga - u still need to zoom most web pages. even at > > > > 800x480 you still need to. i have a n800. i know how often i have to > > > > scroll horizontally even with 800pixels to play with. i know what it > > > > ends up looking like. so qvga is just a more extreme level of zooming > > > > or scrolling needed. > > > > > > > > an 80x24 terminal is possible to make it readable @ qvga - if we allow > > > > scrolling. (and possible in landscape with an ultra-tiny 4-pixel wide > > > > font - possible (3 pixels for text, 1 for space). not very nice though. > > > > > > > > at some point someone will have to make a call on resolutions. maybe we > > > > make a much smaller phone with a smaller screen and thus you will need > > > > to have fewer pixels anyway? who knows. but if there are uses that > > > > cannot be somehow crammed into qvga, i would like to know. > > > > > > > > right now freerunner is vga - and nothing will change. > > > > gta03 is also vga - it is theoretically possible to change without much > > > > impact, but chances of a change are very slim, unless qvga is a "that's > > > > fine for everyone" ANd product management want to push it. right now > > > > they don't push one way or another. > > > > as for future phones - who knows. but knowing what you guys do, want to > > > > do, and need is important. so we need to think of more virtual > > > > framebuffer technology? (eg advertise a higher res but scale down with > > > > a compositor?). is high-res an absolute must for functionality for your > > > > uses, or just a "nice to have" to show off with? > > > > > > > > > > > >>> BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It > > > >>> describes a sequence of interactions > > > >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim > > > >>> my academic history :) > > > >>> > > > >> i asked for use case because i am not just talking quality. i am > > > >> talking a case where vga makes something possible at all or not. where > > > >> something just wouldn't be usable or possible without vga. that is > > > >> what i asked. i want a use case for vga. not just a "it looks a bit > > > >> nicer". > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Nikolaus > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Openmoko community mailing list > > > >>> community@lists.openmoko.org > > > >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > >>> > > > >> -- > > > >> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Openmoko community mailing list > > > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > > > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
