> > > You won't find that in computer vs computer games, because "tricking" the > strong programs requires some go skill and it only works if you wait long > enough before you "solve" the position. But if you search KGS (LeelaBot, > CrazyStone, CzechBot) for even games where the bot lost against a kyu > players you will find many. All go more or less like that: > > A 4-6 kyu human is behind by 10-15 points in the midgame (at that > stage the > probability of winning is correlated with territory, so the MC bot is > building fine.) He creates a 12-16 point worth nakade trick in a corner > and does not solve it.The bot is happy, it thinks a bulk five is alive or > something like that. Perhaps the human sacrificed another 15 points > somewhere to create the trick so he should be dead lost. But, he only > has to play on, reduce, etc. As the endgame approaches, the MC bot > allows the reduction only until the territorial balance would change the > winner. The player is happy, he turned a 25 points loss into a 1.5 point > loss (assumed by the program) and has a 12 point surprise. > At the end, when the whole board is decided, the player kills > the bot's group and the bot turns a sure win into a sure loss and > resigns. > > Because the trick can only be played by similar strength players (much > weaker players can't build something like that, much stronger don't > need it) > it affects the rating of the bots. I guess CrazyStone could be near > KGS 1dan > with that solved. It is 2k now. But, of course, the solution may not > come at > the price of making the program weaker. That is the difficult part.
I want to make sure I understand the nakade problem, please correct me if I am wrong: My understanding of this is that many program do not allow self-atari moves in the play-outs because in general the overwhelming majority are stupid moves. Is that what is causing the nakade problem? And if you start including self-atari you weaken the program in general? And can I assume the tree portion is also inhibited from seeing this due to a combination of factors such as heuristics to delay exploring "ugly" moves as well as the weakness of the play-outs in this regard (which would cause the tree to not be inclined to get close enough to the issue to understand it properly?) - Don > > > Jacques. > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
