> However I think that changing already established rules can have a negative impact on games and it's often better to keep with tradition. Why do you think that your statement above applies to chess, but not to go? Changing the board size invalidates hundreds of years of opening theory research. Thousands of professional games are available for study on 19x19, and none are available on 17x17 or 21x21. Changing the board size to 17x17 is just a big a change as changing some of the rules you mention for chess. >I think people BELIEVE that 19x19 is the best board size because it's what they were taught, and anything else seems wrong and "unbalanced" which means it isn't what they are used to. Of course you are entitled to this opinion, so I wont argue it. Ive seen far sillier opinions from beginning players who didnt understand the game. Don David From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Don Dailey Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Computer-go] 17x17 vs 19x19 I'm always pretty skeptical of subjective statement even by experts - in any field, but then again I have no basis for confirming or refuting such things being a weak player myself. It's just the idea that 19x19 is perfect and 17x17 and 21x21 is crap seems unlikely to me, an admittedly weak player myself. I kind of like to think of games (of perfect information) in terms of what chance does a top human (or future human) player have a beating or drawing a player who is omniscient in the game. If that chance is very close to zero, it's a good game and it doesn't make it a "better game" to make the chances even lower. In fact what is "better" is pretty subjective, isn't it? All games of perfect information are rigged anyway. They have a predetermined outcome that will be reached with perfect play, so they are basically sophisticated puzzles. Don On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Alain Baeckeroot <[email protected]> wrote: Le 15/07/2010 à 19:30, Don Dailey a écrit : > In computer checkers it's all about the openings. ... > So perhaps 9x9 go is starting to be somewhat like that. ... > Never say never, but I believe that even 11x11 Go is deep enough so that > opening preparation could only play a minor role for the foreseeable future. ... > I'm not suggesting that 19x19 should not be the standard board size for go - Your thoughts remind me something i was told by a strong amateur (kgs 7d) about the transition from 17x17 to 19x19 which occured several centuries ago. "17x17 is boring" because the border have "just the right size" to be stable, that is standard well known corner josekis and extensions allow to take the border without problem, whereas on the 19x19 there is additional space, which give weakness, so possibility for invasion/erosion/trouble. I hope some strong go player on the list can better explain this. my 2 cents. Alain. _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
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