Jacques Basaldúa: <[email protected]>: >Petr Baudis wrote: > > > I don't quite understand. I think most programs do not > > disallow eye-filling in the tree stage, only in the MC > > simulation stage. So your simulations will get misevaluated, > > but given enough time to reach final position, tree will > > always consider evaluating the eye-filling move too. > >Of course. I was thinking "upwards" from the end towards >the root as in Álvaro's induction reasoning and thought that >if the nodes are never evaluated correctly by the simulations, >they will never propagate correct info. But as you state, if >you grow the tree to the infinite, why play simulations at all? >So infinite MCTS does not need simulations and gets the result >correct. Now, why still call it MC if the stochastic part >is unnecessary? > >Hideki Kato wrote: > > > If you are talking about the article Subject "Re: 19x19 Study. > > Nakade is difficult", Message-Id:<47A2240E.2090508 at dybot.com>, > > some strong programs already have managed that, though I don't > > know the detail. > >Hi Hideki. If I remember correctly, the Nakade problem was about >playing or not playing self-atari moves. If done, the program >"understood" nakade but was blind to seki detection, if not, >the nakade problem emerged. Please, anyone correct me if I am wrong >on this, since I think it is a very important aspect of MCTS. Also >feel free to describe what you do to decide when self-atari has to >be played and when not. Finding the correct policy about self atari >solves the nakade problem while still "understanding" seki.
Hm, I'm referring the figure you posted earlier: | . . . . . . . | . # # . # . . | . O # . # . . | O O O . # # . | # # O O O # . | . # # . . . . --------------- Here, the problem is "filling own eye" at 1-1 for B, right? Self-atari (of a small group) is already allowed by almost all MCTS programs, I believe. I don't understand how this relates with seki. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Hideki >AFAIK nobody has experimented with filling own eyes as the >position was totally artificial and I don't think a program can be >forced into that mistake. That was just hypothetical arguing. > > >Jacques. > >_______________________________________________ >Computer-go mailing list >[email protected] >http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Hideki Kato <mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
