On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Hideki Kato <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jacques Basaldúa: <[email protected]>: > > >Because people here are used to see programs playing > >4k with just 2500 sims (like Aya) you may not realize > >how hard it is until you write your own. With long > >times you start seeing single digit kyu programs play > >really good moves. Magnus also commented in the first > >slow bot tournament that he was very happy how well > >Valkyria was playing. I don't seen why Zen would be an > >exception. > > That's simple (at least I think). The scaling law converges at some > point where the speed (or more thinking time) benefits little. It converges at perfect play. Thinking that it just happens to converge at the exact limits of current hardware is sort of like thinking the earth is the center of the universe just because this is where we happen to be right now. In 20 years with hardware 100x faster or more (assuming that happens) I'm sure people will also be saying that we have reached convergence. I saw this happen over a period of about 20 years in computer chess, it was always the same, computers have pretty much reached their limit and we need to try something else. Eventually people wised up, but it took a while. Now it starts all over again with Go. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but I'm trying to save you from looking stupid in 10 years should people dig up these old posts. > Zen19D > already reached that point and Zen19S's rank is lower than Zen19D's. > > > Facts: Zen19D and Zen19S share the same binary (version 7.7d9) and > hardware (6-pc cluster; 26 cores total). Only the time setting is > different. Zen19D and Zen19S play every move in 13 and 28 second, > respectively (2 second is a margin for the network delay). Human > players have 9 x 15 second with Zen19D and 20 minutes + 5 x 30 second > with Zen19S. Recent ranks on KGS are 5.4 dan and 4.5 dan for Zen19D and > Zen19S, respectively. > > Additionally, since Zen19 (version 7.7) is ranked 4.4 dan with the same > time setting as Zen19D, 8-core Xeon seems not fast enough to reach that > point. > So basically what you are showing here is that when both computer and human play faster, the computer benefits more. What is 9 x 15? And what is 20 minutes + 5 x 30, I don't understand the time controls. How much time is the human getting and how much time is the computer getting? I assume the computer is getting 13 and 28 right? So the extra time for the computer is just over 2X which isn't that much perhaps 1/2 dan. But can you estimate how much time on average the human is getting against each opponent? Because I don't understand the notation 9x15 etc. And also what are the error margins? How many relevant games to achieve these ratings? Don > > Hideki > -- > Hideki Kato <mailto:[email protected]> > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
_______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
