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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Volition in Anohim
From: "Douglas Koller, Latin & French" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Animal sounds
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Sound shift question
From: Dirk Elzinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: Senyecan nouns
From: Doug Dee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Animal sounds
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: Sound shift question
From: Paul Roser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Animacy in Sohlob
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: Senyecan nouns
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. About making a translator
From: Adam Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: Animal sounds
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Re: Sound shift question
From: "Isaac A. Penzev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12. Re: My 500th post! The Babel Text in Old Albic
From: J�rg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13. Re: About making a translator
From: Samantha Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14. Re: Information on future English language development?
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15. Welsh "w" and "y"
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16. Re: About making a translator
From: Simon Richard Clarkstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17. Re: Animacy in Sohlob
From: Simon Richard Clarkstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18. Re: Anybody on AIM
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19. Re: About making a translator
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20. Re: LiveJournal (was Re: Fantastic new sounds)
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21. introducing myself
From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22. Re: Anybody on AIM
From: Robert Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23. Re: Senyecan ortho. breakthrough
From: John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24. Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal
From: John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25. Re: Senyecan ortho. breakthrough
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:25:05 -0400
From: "Douglas Koller, Latin & French" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Volition in Anohim
Sally writes:
>Here are some verbs that are always non-volitional:
>
>be, exist, be ignorant of, be absent, be present, be happy, sad, blue,
>fiery, stupid and a bunch of other stative verbs in T; get, sleep, fall
>asleep, wake up, sicken, vomit, bleed, die, dream, have (inalienable),
>beware, trip, fall down, etc.
Interesting. G�arthnuns doesn't have these kinds of grammatically
hardwired volitional distinctions of course, but the word for
"sleepy" is "h�f�rafal�b", "wanting to sleep". There is a set of
adjectives like this: glozh�rafal�b - hungry (wanting to eat),
frozh�rafal�b - thirsty (wanting to drink), batr�th�rafal�b - dirty
(wanting to be washed), and perhaps others. One could argue, I
suppose, that this usage of "�raf", "want", is akin to English or
Chinese, where want bleeds into need. Still, I think to the
G�arth�ins mindset, sleep would run alongside your defecate and
urinate disitnctions. I mean, there's sleep (It's your late afternoon
art history class, the professor's turned off the lights to show
slides, it's eighty degrees in the classroom, and you pulled an
all-nighter the night before -- you don't stand a prayer.) and
there's sleep (It's a lazy Saturday, you're racked out on the couch
reading a book and you're so comfortable that you lay your open book
on your chest and decide to head off to the Land of Nod for a few
hours.).
>The ambivolitional verbs cover the senses:
>
>hear/listen to; see/watch or look at; smell/sniff; feel/touch or caress;
>taste/lick
G�arthnuns marks these pairs with a prefix, "dim-", which I've never
bothered to translate ("keenly, attentively doing X"?). It's only
used with these basic sensory verbs:
tel/dimtel - see/look at
shal/dimshal - hear/listen to
don't remember the others sans dictionary but:
feel/touch
smell/smell
taste/taste
For the G�arth�ins, the "smell/dimsmell" and "taste/dimtaste" pairs
translate into English as "smell" and "taste" respectively, since
English doesn't seem make this distinction:
"Do you smell smoke?" (smell)
"Smell this milk. Has it gone bad?" (dimsmell)
"You can't taste things very well with a bad cold." (taste)
"Taste this. Does it need more dill?" (dimtaste) (and *every*thing
needs more dill -- Cheerios need more dill -- that, and cream sherry).
"Sniff" and "lick" would be translated differently as they're
considered different phenomena.
Kou
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:09:57 -0000
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Animal sounds
Do the conlangs of any of you have animal sounds in the vocabulary?
Senyecan includes:
bark - v�rga
caw - g�mha
cluck - c�ca
coo - t��ta
low - m�ca
neigh - r��ca
oink - g�ra
peep - p��pa
purr - p�na
quack - c��ca
Charlie
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:26:17 -0600
From: Dirk Elzinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sound shift question
On Oct 25, 2004, at 6:45 AM, Thomas R. Wier wrote:
> /th/ > /tx/ seems reasonable, as
> long as you say a really long VOT gets reinterpreted as frication
> (I seem to recall this happening in some Siouan language, but at the
> phonetic, not phonemic level).
It's in Navajo; dunno about Siouan.
--
Dirk Elzinga
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"I believe that phonology is superior to music. It is more variable and
its pecuniary possibilities are far greater." - Erik Satie
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:21:49 EDT
From: Doug Dee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Senyecan nouns
In a message dated 10/24/2004 10:47:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>The base of the definite article does agree
>with the gender (s- for animate; t- for inanimate), but the endings
>agree with the class.
Thanks for the examples of agreement.
I think I see how it works now.
A remark on terminology: I think linguists in general would say that your six
"classes/declensions" _are_ "genders" by the usual definition of gender.
("Genders are classes of nouns reflected in the behavior of associated words"
according to Charles Hockett as quoted by Greville Corbett in his book _Gender_).
"Inanimate" nouns would then fall into 2 of these genders (the -o and -a
genders) and "animate" nouns into the rest. So, "animate" and "inanimate"
wouldn't be genders, but sets of genders.
Is there a reason you don't describe it that way?
Doug
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:32:33 -0400
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Animal sounds
Charlie "caeruleancentaur" wrote:
> Do the conlangs of any of you have animal sounds in the vocabulary?
>
Just a few so far in Kash:
e�e (usu. repeated e�e�e�e�e...) the bleating sound made by lopas (=
sheep/goat); ye�e to bleat; of humans, to sound like a lopa bleating when
wheedling or insisting
(Cindu's fauna are not too much thought out...)
�ar to roar
kru� ~kukru�; ru�ur to growl
rondo� ~rondro� to purr of certain animals
muru-muru to purr, of certain other animals (possibly related to pumuru
'thunder')
We also distinguish: lali to sing, of certain flying "lizards" and children
(high-pitch) vs. rinjura 'to sing, of the adult human voice'
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:38:27 -0400
From: Paul Roser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sound shift question
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:26:17 -0600, Dirk Elzinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Oct 25, 2004, at 6:45 AM, Thomas R. Wier wrote:
>
>> /th/ > /tx/ seems reasonable, as
>> long as you say a really long VOT gets reinterpreted as frication
>> (I seem to recall this happening in some Siouan language, but at the
>> phonetic, not phonemic level).
>
>It's in Navajo; dunno about Siouan.
It's also in D/N/Lakota - iirc, Ch {ph, th, kh} have allophones with simple
aspiration and allophones with velar frication, I believe the latter
occurring generally with back vowels, but the distribution being slightly
different for each stop (I think it was that /kh/ occurs as an affricate
more frequently, /ph/ as [px] least frequently), or possibly in free
alternation. Can't recall if this also occurs with the aspirated
affricate /tsh, tSh/.
Bfowol
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:40:19 -0400
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Animacy in Sohlob
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:20:58 +0200, Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>But this means that I have to decide what is animate! Just
>humans (*if* the speakers are human, which I haven't decided)
>and animals is too bland and too scientific for my taste.
>Other candidate categories for animacy are:
>
>-- Spirits and gods (naturally).
>-- Heavenly bodies (these are gods to the speakers!)
>-- Fire.
>-- Water.
>-- Weather phenomena.
>-- Metals (the only more odd category that has suggested itself to me.)
If you're going to have Fire and Water, then I would also include the other
"elements", Wind and Earth, and also Thunder.
Also, if you're including Metal, I would also include Wood.
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of Choton
official Choton homepage:
http://www.choton.org
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:54:58 +0200
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Senyecan nouns
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:32:39 -0000, caeruleancentaur
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >>The plural is indicated by adding -i to the singular forms. Before
> >>or after the case markers?
>
> After, e.g., b�d��p�stenmuus�ni (yellow-breasted field mice).
Interesting.
I thought that natlangs tended to do it the other way around if the
plural case forms had recognisable "plural" and "case" morphemes. But
that's not a reason not to do it differently in a conlang :)
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Watch the Reply-To!
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:27:26 EDT
From: Adam Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: About making a translator
Do any of you know how to make a translator for usage on the computer? The
only computer language I know is mIRC scripting and I don't even know enough of
that language to make a translator that can translate effectively with
correct grammar.
[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:34:53 -0400
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Animal sounds
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:09:57 -0000, caeruleancentaur
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Do the conlangs of any of you have animal sounds in the vocabulary?
Good question. Let's see... animal sounds in Choton should be:
maumau - cats
pipip - chicks (little chickens, not what you think)
muhmuh - cows
krakra - crows and other birds
kukuk - cuckcoos
wouwou - dog
ih-ah - donkeys
gurgur - doves
qakqak - ducks
qahkqahk - frogs
gagak - hens
uhu-uhu - owls
grunzgrunz - pig
kikeriki - rooster
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of Choton
official Choton homepage:
http://www.choton.org
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:03:59 +0300
From: "Isaac A. Penzev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sound shift question
Dirk Elzinga wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2004, at 6:45 AM, Thomas R. Wier wrote:
>
> > /th/ > /tx/ seems reasonable, as
> > long as you say a really long VOT gets reinterpreted as frication
> > (I seem to recall this happening in some Siouan language, but at the
> > phonetic, not phonemic level).
>
> It's in Navajo; dunno about Siouan.
The same is true about Romani (Gypsy) in its East European dialects. All
aspirates > cons. + /x/ clusters. Also, in its Russian dialect, /p_h4/ >
/pS/, and in Kalderash dialect /tS_h/ > /s\/.
-- Yitz
"dj H3tj-9 t n Hqr m njw.t.f"
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:40:40 +0200
From: J�rg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My 500th post! The Babel Text in Old Albic
Hallo!
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:59:19 +0200,
Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> J�rg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This is my 500th post to CONLANG, and on this occasion I'd like to
> > present you the Babel text in Old Albic.
>
> Congratulations! :-)
Thank you!
> >...
> > 1. Mar ahara cvanthas Aramaras
> > 1. but AOR-be-3SG:P whole-LOC world-LOC-LOC
>
> Why suffixaufnahme in 'Aramaras'?
In Old Albic, _cvanth_ is a noun which has a locative argument:
`the whole *OF* the world'. The locative in Old Albic also has
partitive meaning, and is also used to mark inalienable possession.
> > sam ta�emas a sam cvararemas.
> > one-OBJ language-PL-LOC and one-OBJ speech-PL-LOC
>
> Hmm, I don't seem to understand the structure of the sentence. Why
> LOC with 'language' and 'speech'?
Numerals are treated as nouns with the counted entity in the
plural locative case.
> Ah, maybe 'to have' = 'be with' = 'be' + LOC? (Like Finnish?
> 'Ja kaikessa maassa oli yksi kieli ja yksi puheenparsi')
> Is that right?
Old Albic indeed doesn't have a verb `to have', but uses `to be'
with the possessor in the dative case:
Har� mana chvanam.
be-PRES-3SG:P 1SG-DAT dog-OBJ
`To me is a dog.' = `I have a dog.'
> >...
> > apheni phalas ndoras Senararas
> > AOR-find-3PL:A plain-OBJ land-LOC Senar-LOC-LOC
> >...
>
> Hmm, at this point, I'm really lost with 'Seneraras'.
> Should be an apposition to 'ndoras'.
There are indeed two possibilities. Apposition, which would be
_ndoras Senaras_, or the possessive construction (`in the land
*of* Senar') I have used in the text.
> Please explain, it's interesting! :-)
At your service, and thank you for your interest!
Greetings,
J�rg.
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:33:19 -0700
From: Samantha Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About making a translator
I know how to sort of do it. If you go to freelang.net and download the dictionary
program you can translate word for word. But i don't know how to program to translate.
The Disco Bandit boogies to and fro, hither and yon. Whence comes he? No man knows.
Whither strikes he next? All men live in fear of him and his Moxie.
(from kingdomofloathing.com)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:30:36 +0200
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Information on future English language development?
Manayang v�ris!
Iranea, Henan 1A, 11B0 tay Caves Sally ang matahaniy�: [1]
> Everything new contributes to new language, and the media
> spreads it better than anything before the advent of the
> print culture. Also, writing conventions on email. How
> many of you have seen the spelling "speach"? As the
> Internet becomes available to more and more people, it
> will democratize writing, spelling and speaking
> conventions, and we will be exposed to more dialectical
> flavors than ever, not unlike the problem that faced
> Caxton sitting and wondering whether to write eggs or
> eyren in his first printed text.
I could cry about how people spell words sometimes. I've
also seen "probobly" and often times "grammer", even
written that way by fellow conlangers (though not here).
As for writing, I always think about whether to write
"colour" or "color", "gray" or "grey" etc. Though I tend to
use British orthography. Nevertheless, "gaol" for [dZEi)l]
has really baffled me. I have never seen it before, except
recently in the dictionary. It seems like the Brits are
using "jail" as well and "gaol" is old-fashioned.
As for dialects, well, as non-native I don't know about
dialects of English. Nevertheless, there's the passive
vocabulary after all. You know more words than you use.
Don't ask me how much is estimated for the average, but it
is said that you need about 2,500 to 3,000 words to get by
in everyday situations IIRC.
Carsten
---[ FOOTNOTE #1 ]-----------------------------------------
Man- ay- ang va- aris!
greet-1sg-AGT 2pl-PAT
I greet you!
Iri- an- ea Hen-an 1A 11B0 tay Caves Sally
Five-NOM-LOC ten-NOMZ 22 2004 DEF.TRG <Sally Caves>
On Friday, October 22, 2004, Sally Caves
ang ma- tahan-iy�: ...
TRG:A PST-write-3sg:<Sally Caves>
wrote: ...
--
Eri silvev�ng aibannama padangin.
Nivaie evaenain eri ming silvoiev�ng caparei.
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:30:49 +0200
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Welsh "w" and "y"
Hello!
My parents keep telling on and off when the topic is Welsh,
that |w| can basically represent *any* sound.
Pronounciation in Welsh orthography is AFAIK partly only
predictable from the context, but I can't imagine that a
letter can be used for any sound. In short: I wanted to
know if this claim is true. Sensible would be that |w| is
depending on what precedes or follows [w] or [v\], /u/ or
maybe even /y/, but any sound ...?
And something that interests me personally, how can you tell
that |y| is really what it represents by default (I guess
[y])? Wales is "Cymru" in Welsh, which is AFAIK pronounced
[kAmrA] or so -- at least I have been told so.
How to pronounce that ominous "ll" I have not found out yet.
Is it [L] or [L\] or was it really [K]? I've read it
somewhere here ("somehere") but don't remember anymore.
Thanks,
Cawstyn ([kA:stn=], however)
--
Eri silvev�ng aibannama padangin.
Nivaie evaenain eri ming silvoiev�ng caparei.
- Antoine de Saint-Exup�ry, Le Petit Prince
-> http://www.beckerscarsten.de/?conlang=ayeri
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:46:07 +0100
From: Simon Richard Clarkstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About making a translator
Adam Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious wrote:
> Do any of you know how to make a translator for usage on the computer?
> The only computer language I know is mIRC scripting and I don't even
> know enough of that language to make a translator that can translate
> effectively with correct grammar.
This is a highly non-trivial task. You can get a computer to do
reasonable glosses/interlinears, but natural language is very difficult.
Unless your lang has a very close correspondence to English (or
whichever your destination lang is, since you may be making a family of
conlangs) then translations will still look terrible.
OTOH, learning to program is a useful skill, even if it only gives you a
new way to think about grammar for conlanging. Python
<http://www.python.org/> would likely be a good place to start, though
(depending on your age) you could also take a Comp Sci course at
university. There is a possibility that there exists somewhere a
programming language (or a library of code) specifically for writing
translators, but it is difficult to search for such a thing, as
"translator" is also a more general programming term.
Once you (or anyone else) have a bit of programming skill (after several
years), then you could try writing a BNF notation or some form of
mathematical-ish specification for your language(s) (easier than for
natlangs, since it doesn't have the idiom and general irregularity that
natlangs tend to acquire). This could eventually be made into a large
data file that a translating program reads in. I'm really not sure
where to go from there, other than just "write the program". Wikipedia
has a article: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_translation>.
Finally, several free translation sites are linked to from
<http://babelfish.org/>.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:55:23 +0100
From: Simon Richard Clarkstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Animacy in Sohlob
Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> Doug Dee wrote:
>> In a message dated 10/24/2004 7:21:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> How abut plants that can turn to face the sun?
> I'm undecided on that, for the personal reason that the Buddha
> teaches that plants are insentient.
Ah, but what does the speakers' religion teach? Some other listed
things that they consider animate suggest (to me at least) that their
religion's idea of sentience could be rather different from that of
Buddhism.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:36:50 -0400
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anybody on AIM
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:01:15 +0200, Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Is anybody on this list also on AIM --
>and in the CET time zone would be nice!
I'm on AIM, but in the CST time zone. My screen name is RobAU78.
- Rob
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:37:59 +0200
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About making a translator
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on 2004-10-25 21:27:26 +0200
>
> Do any of you know how to make a translator for usage on the
> computer? The only computer language I know is mIRC scripting and I
> don't even know enough of that language to make a translator that can
> translate effectively with correct grammar.
If you find out how, remember to apply for a patent. You could make
trillions...
t. (guess what my masters thesis will roughly be about...)
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:40:16 -0400
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LiveJournal (was Re: Fantastic new sounds)
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:20:57 -0400, Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Yry eftoihs ("sorry!"); what's the difference between a live journal and
> a
> blog?
Nothing.
www.Livejournal.com is one of several sites (see also blurty.com and
deadjournal.com, inter alia) that host and maintain blogs free of charge.
There is improved service for paying customers, but I'm a free user (lj
user="darth_spacey"), and I've never had any complaints. Except maybe once
or twice I'd've liked to add a few icons, and maybe a custom mood theme.
There's a moderately thriving conlang community on there, and zillions of
others on every subject imaginable, plus you can use it as a mechanism to
collate RSS feeds into one manageable place.
Paul
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:48:44 +0200
From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: introducing myself
Well, although I've already made a few posts, it seems that it is
a good custom to introduce oneself on the list, so here is my "this is
me"-post.
My name is Ren� Uittenbogaard, I'm 33 years old, from the Netherlands.
I work for an ICT company (Unix and database stuff). On AIM I am
ReneUit; on IRC my nick is Tranton.
Languages spoken: Dutch, English, German, some French, some Esperanto,
a little Spanish, a little Russian.
I've been conlanging for quite some time, I can't exactly remember how long.
Conlang projects started (not necessarily finished):
Alna�r (named after the star; alphabet based on Hebrew; deemed too much
a rip-off of everything, not very original; abandoned)
Treytan (Alna�r done right; abandoned)
Pict (pictographic/logographic language, I might just revive some of
its ideas in one of my current languages)
Ure spraec (based on old/middle-English; abandoned)
Tretta (Treytan done right, nice alphabet)
Cal�nnawn (probably most extensive project together with Alna�r)
Tacs�y (lizard language short on labials)
Dyammo (human language, sci-fi setting)
Eyahw�nsi (language of plains people, uses a syllabary)
The unfortunate thing is that I have got a lot of hobbies, therefore, my
time is not only spent on conlanging :-/
Regards,
Ren�
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:55:21 +0000
From: Robert Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anybody on AIM
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I use aim as well: mtgplayer666
I am on irc more than any messenger though.
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The CONLANG-IRC Server: priscilla.ath.cx #conlang
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:10:11 -0400
From: John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Senyecan ortho. breakthrough
Danny Wier scripsit:
> You could also use S and Z with carons since you can input those with
> Alt+0xxx too!
>
> S-caron = Alt+0138
> Z-caron = Alt+0142
> s-caron = Alt+0154
> z-caron = Alt+0158
Unlike the other characters, however, these are strictly Windows-only;
they shouldn't be used on this list.
John Cowan, Lord of the Instrumentality of Conlang
--
Andrew Watt on Microsoft: John Cowan
"Never in the field of human computing [EMAIL PROTECTED]
has so much been paid by so many http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
to so few!" (pace Winston Churchill) http://www.reutershealth.com
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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:09:51 -0400
From: John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal
Roger Mills scripsit:
> > > Incidentally, what languages _do_ allow /N/ initally? Offhand, I can
> > > only think of Vietnamese and Tibetan, and it's a tricky thing to look
> > > up.
> >
> > Thai is one that comes to mind, as well as Cantonese. It looks like
> > Indonesian also has a few words with initial ng-. I'm sure there must be
> > others; I assume that Nganasan, at least, is pronounced with an initial
> > /N/ or /Ng/.
>
> Many Indonesian/Philippine/Oceanic languages have /N-/; not many of the
> forms are reconstructible all the way back, however.
Middle Chinese had /N-/, and several Sinitic languages retain it, although
in Mandarin it's become /w-/. It makes me wonder about a possible
Sino-Tibetan/Austronesian/Tai-Kadai Sprachbund effect, along with the
more well-known ones.
--
"And it was said that ever after, if any John Cowan
man looked in that Stone, unless he had a [EMAIL PROTECTED]
great strength of will to turn it to other www.ccil.org/~cowan
purpose, he saw only two aged hands withering www.reutershealth.com
in flame." --"The Pyre of Denethor"
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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:35:31 -0000
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Senyecan ortho. breakthrough
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Danny Wier scripsit:
> You could also use S and Z with carons since you can input those
with
> Alt+0xxx too!
>
> S-caron = Alt+0138
> Z-caron = Alt+0142
> s-caron = Alt+0154
> z-caron = Alt+0158
>>Unlike the other characters, however, these are strictly Windows-
>>only;
>>they shouldn't be used on this list.
John Cowan, Lord of the Instrumentality of Conlang
Why is that, John? � � �
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