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There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Arabic and BACK TO Self-segregating morphology
From: Patrick Littell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Conlangs in fiction/movies
From: 轡虫 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Conlangs in fiction/movies
From: Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. OT: [TECH] Gmail and MIME Digests
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Conlangs in music
From: John Vertical <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:06:59 -0500
From: Patrick Littell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Arabic and BACK TO Self-segregating morphology
On 12/21/05, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is a really interesting problem, from the
> theoretical viewpoint. But as a practical matter, I
> wouldn't want any conlang of mine to have words as
> long as "kainalijaupalitaosa" anyway, so I doubt I
> could find any real-world use for anything more than
> the most rudamentary system of compounding.
Oh, of course; as a practical problem it's kinda silly. Any complete
implementation would be nigh-unspeakable.
Hmm, although if we're just talking derivational morphology here it
doesn't much matter. You don't really need access to derivational
morphology on the fly; when you need the abstract noun of GROW you
just choose "growth" out of your lexicon. You don't create it out of
GROW and -TH every time you need it. (Well, certainly not for
"growth", maybe you do for... hmm... "cuteness".)
The internal structure is there, and can help if you've never seen the
word before, or are trying to learn it for the first time, but you
don't need it to speak.
---------
Anyway, here's my favorite structurally unambiguous morphology so far.
It has only two requirements, the first one modified from your
starting post:
(1) Every morpheme has a long vowel in its first syllable, and only in
the first syllable. This vowel tells you how many syllables are in
the morpheme.
(2) Affixes (and non-head constituents of compounds) are added to a
stem/head constituent by infixing them before its final syllable.
That's it; no further phonological or morphological requirements.
(Well, except for the one that follows from these: that no root can
have less than two syllables.) Let's try it with the roots "gooko"
and "huumalir", and the suffix "vraaN"...
gooko + vraan = goovraanko
huumalir + vraan = hummavraanlir
gooko + huumalir = goohuumalirko
huumalir + gooko = huumagookolir
(gooko + huumalir) + vraan = goohuumalirvraanko
gooko + (huumalir + vraan) = goohuumavraanlirko
A devil to speak, maybe, but I thought it was fun.
--
Patrick Littell
University of Pittsburgh
Fall 05 Office Hours: Friday, 1:00-2:00 by appointment
G17, Cathedral of Learning
CCBC
Voice Mail: ext 744
Fall 05 Office Hours: W 5:00-6:00, by appointment
Building 9, room 102
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:24:55 -0600
From: 轡虫 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlangs in fiction/movies
> > The thread on conlangs in music got me curious about other conlangs that
> > have been used on-screen or in popular books. Resources are easy to find
> > regarding Klingon and Quenya. Personally, I'd also be interested in seeing
> > published references about Vulcan (also done by Marc Okrand, of Klingon
> > fame. Sadly, I've spoken to Mr. Okrand, and he informed me that no Vulcan
> > Dictionary is forthcoming.)
There's a book called _Riddley Walker_ by Russell Hoban, who "has
imagined a humanity regressed to an iron-age, semi-literate state--and
invented a language to represent it", according to the back-cover
blurb. Here's the first few sentences:
"On my naming day when I come 12 I gone front spear and kilt a wyld
boar he parbly ben the las wyld pig on the Bundel Downs any how there
hadnt ben none for a long time befor him nor I aint looking to seee
non agen. He dint make the groun shake nor nothig like that when he
comee on to my spear he wernt all that big plus he lookit poorly. He
done the reqwyrt he ternt and stood and clattert his teef and made his
rush and there we wer then."
More or less, I'm sure I've typoed it up a bit.
I don't think I have the patience to read more and find out what
actual changes the author has made, beyond the spelling and
intentional incoherence. The first page hasn't impressed me much, but
I'd be interested if any of you know of someone who's gone through the
trouble and posted their results. =)
> Most "conlangs" in commercial media products are not only poorly
> documented, but also lack linguistic substance
Since most readers/audience members don't understand what constitutes
a language, and wouldn't notice all of the hard work if the "conlang"
actually did have linguistic substance, it seems like a pretty poor
investment...
If the passage I quoted above is described as being written in an
invented language, then it seems like the effort required to fool
people is very low.
--
kutsuwamushi
(BEWARE OF GMAIL)
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:46:32 +1300
From: Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlangs in fiction/movies
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 02:26, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > That's sad, very sad, because my Klingon girlfriend has threatened to ...
>
> WOW! A Klingon girlfriend! You must be a very happy guy. :-)
>
> **Henrik
ia, ia, ia ftagn! ;)
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:07:02 +0100
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: [TECH] Gmail and MIME Digests
Hello,
Is it possible somehow to download the MIME Digests I get from the list
with GMail? When I tried that out, it just showed me the whole message
without the possiblity to download the attached single messages. But
then it showed me that this mail had attachments. Weird.
Carsten
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:41:05 +0200
From: John Vertical <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlangs in music
There's a Swedish band called "Urga" who also have a conlang of their own
(seems to be partially a posteriori.)
And as a somewhat borderline case, Dave Greenslade's 1979 concept album,
"The Pentateuch of the Cosmogony" was bundled with a small book by British
fantasy artist Patrick Woodroffe, telling the creation myth of a spacefaring
conculture (supposedly transcribed from the original script, after the
remnants of this culture were found in our solar system!) The songs on the
album are based on various parts of this story, but I recall they were
mostly instrumental.
I can list a few instances of Gibberish too, if someone cares.
John Vertical
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