There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Eine beim haspeln
From: Sally Caves
1b. Re: Eine beim haspeln
From: Sally Caves
1c. Re: Eine beim haspeln
From: Henrik Theiling
1d. Re: Eine beim haspeln
From: Christian Köttl
1e. Re: Eine beim haspeln
From: Sally Caves
2a. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Sally Caves
2b. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Sally Caves
2c. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Pieterson
2d. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Roger Mills
2e. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Henrik Theiling
3a. Re: Nahuatl sound files?
From: Dirk Elzinga
3b. Re: Nahuatl sound files?
From: Henrik Theiling
4. META: Happy Birthday List
From: Carsten Becker
5a. Re: Another word generator I've made
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
5b. Re: Another word generator I've made
From: Sam Drost
6. Re: Saruban tadayam ayedawi -- or, Goodbye for now!
From: Carsten Becker
7a. Re: composite preposition with two opposite meanings
From: Eugene Oh
7b. Re: composite preposition with two opposite meanings
From: Ph.D.
8. Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
9a. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
From: Kalle Bergman
9b. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
From: Henrik Theiling
9c. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
From: taliesin the storyteller
9d. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
From: Philip Newton
10. Re: FW: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
From: Gary Shannon
11. Re: Takiyyudin phonology, and the starling's song
From: Shreyas Sampat
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Eine beim haspeln
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:49 pm (PDT)
Speaking of German, can any native speaker unravel this
early-twentieth-century description of what I think is a weaving procedure
for me? Found in a dictionary. Maddeningly, it doesn't capitalize the
nouns"
eine beim haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen zwischen-faden
abgefeilte u.für sich verbunden anzahl fäden
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Eine beim haspeln
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:15 pm (PDT)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Caves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Speaking of German, can any native speaker unravel this
> early-twentieth-century description of what I think is a weaving procedure
> for me? Found in a dictionary. Maddeningly, it doesn't capitalize the
> nouns"
>
> eine beim haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen zwischen-faden
> abgefeilte u.für sich verbunden anzahl fäden
This is what I supposed it meant. . .generally:
"A number of threads which, while being reeled, are filed off and bound
together by a diagonally [or cross-] wrapped thread in between."
How close? The embedded clauses are very defeating. Eine blah blah blah
Anzahl.
Sally
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Eine beim haspeln
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:56 am (PDT)
Hi!
Sally Caves writes:
> Speaking of German, can any native speaker unravel this
> early-twentieth-century description of what I think is a weaving
> procedure for me? Found in a dictionary. Maddeningly, it doesn't
> capitalize the nouns"
>
> eine beim haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen zwischen-faden
> abgefeilte u.für sich verbunden anzahl fäden
Probably 'verbundene', with '-e'.
It's not a sentence, actually, but probably the explanation what
something is (which would be logical in a dictionary describing an
entry). I don't know what 'Haspeln' is, probably a type or technique
of weaving. Anyway, with capitalisation it would be:
XYZ - eine beim Haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen Zwischenfaden
abgefeilte und für sich verbundene Anzahl Fäden.
It's a bit weird, though. In English:
XYZ - in the context of "Haspl"ing, a number of threads that are filed by
being bound together by another thread which is wound around them,
and which are bound together by themselves.
I think. The verb 'abfeilen' is strange where and it is probably a
different usage that normally, since it then would mean 'to rasp off',
which I don't think is what is meant. That's why I used 'to file',
which I hope is correct.
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Eine beim haspeln
Posted by: "Christian Köttl" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:31 am (PDT)
Seconding Henrik, I would say it is
"at reeling, a number of threads knit together
and filed off through an "intermediate thread"
orthogonally wound around."
The usage of "feilen" (as in "abgefeilt") is very
rare. I suspect it has something to do with
French "fil" which means "thread" or "thin
wire", and as there is an English word "file"
with a similar meanning, "to file off" should be
a good translation.
"Zwischenfaden" is a special vocabulary from
knitting. As I never had the pleasure to read an
English articel on this topic, I am not sure how
to translate it correctly.
@Deutschsprechende
Eine Haspel ist ein Gerät, mit dem Fäden
aufgenommen werden (die Haspel) - und zwar in der
Form, daß mehrere Stecken/Stäbe so angeordnet
werden, daß man den Faden in Form eines
Dreiecks/Vierecks/... aufrollt bzw. abrollt.
WIMRE kommt der Ausdruck "verhaspeln" für einen
Versprecher davon: Wenn sich jemand verhaspelt,
dann rollt er den Faden nicht schön von der
Haspel ab oder auf.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Eine beim haspeln
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:50 am (PDT)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Theiling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi!
>
> Sally Caves writes:
>> Speaking of German, can any native speaker unravel this
>> early-twentieth-century description of what I think is a weaving
>> procedure for me? Found in a dictionary. Maddeningly, it doesn't
>> capitalize the nouns"
>>
>> eine beim haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen zwischen-faden
>> abgefeilte u.für sich verbunden anzahl fäden
>
> Probably 'verbundene', with '-e'.
I'll check. Haspel, by the way, is "bobbin" or "reel."
This is an old dictionary of Old.Middle High German, defining the word
uizza, which according to other dictionaries means Faden, Garnfaden, Fitze.
Now "Fitze" seems to be a descendant of uizza, but all I can find for it is
Fitz, "snarl." I'm thinking this is the unused yarn that is cut off and
turned into a yarn-ball.
> It's not a sentence, actually, but probably the explanation what
> something is (which would be logical in a dictionary describing an
> entry). I don't know what 'Haspeln' is, probably a type or technique
> of weaving. Anyway, with capitalisation it would be:
>
> XYZ - eine beim Haspeln durch einen quer darum gewundenen Zwischenfaden
> abgefeilte und für sich verbundene Anzahl Fäden.
>
> It's a bit weird, though. In English:
>
> XYZ - in the context of "Haspl"ing, a number of threads that are filed by
> being bound together by another thread which is wound around them,
> and which are bound together by themselves.
Hmm. A number of threads on a bobbin that are filed off and bound together
by a "through-thread at a cross/diagonal angle. ?? Zwischenfaden as
Christian says.
> I think. The verb 'abfeilen' is strange where and it is probably a
> different usage that normally, since it then would mean 'to rasp off',
> which I don't think is what is meant. That's why I used 'to file',
> which I hope is correct.
>
> **Henrik
Actually, I find abfeilen in Leo, meaning "to file off." I do think "rasp
off" is what is meant, because we're dealing with threads here in something
woven on a loom.
Thanks both of you!
Sally
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:50 pm (PDT)
Did it already! You'll have to go to ZBB to see it, though. :) Got stuck
on "singularity," thinking it was the mathematical term.
Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:09 AM
Subject: FW: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
> As seen on the ZBB. It's a real challenge, but worth it.
> See: www.beckerscarsten.de/conlang/ayeri/xmp_pendulum.pdf --
> I translated the text from German, as explained in that
> file. The German version of the extract adds some extra
> pepper to this, so I translated it into English for those
> who want to try. I don't know which version of both is
> closer to the Italian original, the official German one,
> which I used, or the English one. You'll see the
> differences.
>
> ----- Original Message: -----
>
> TRANSLATION CHALLENGE: FOUCAULT'S PENDULUM
>
> Or, a challenge for the semioticians - the first page of
> Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_.
> This is a relatively complex passage, which should put any
> conlang through its paces. Is your conlang up to it? Go on,
> I dare you.
>
> << That was when I saw the Pendulum.
>
> The sphere, hanging from a long wire set into the ceiling
> of the choir, swayed back and forth with isochronal majesty.
>
> I knew - but anyone could have sensed it in the magic of
> that serene breathing - that the period was governed by the
> square root of the length of the wire and by pi, that number
> which, however irrational to sublunar minds, through a
> higher rationality binds the circumference and diameter of
> all possible circles. The time it took the sphere to swing
> from end to end was determined by an arcane conspiracy
> between the most timeless of measures: the singularity of
> the point of suspension, the duality of the plane's
> dimensions, the triadic beginning of pi, the secret
> quadratic nature of the root and the unnumbered perfection
> of the circle itself.
>
> I also knew that a magnetic device centred in the floor
> beneath issued its command to a cylinder hidden in the heart
> of the sphere, thus assuring continual motion. This device,
> far from interfering with the law of the Pendulum, in fact
> permitted its manifestation, for in a vacuum any object
> hanging from a weightless and unstretchable wire free of air
> resistance and friction will oscillate for eternity. >>
>
> (Dewrad, www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=17730)
>
> --------------------
>
> In the thread on the ZBB this is from there are also
> translation of the above into Icelandic and Indonesian -- by
> native speakers, but unfortunately without interlinears or
> any other explanations.
>
> Have fun,
> Carsten
>
> --
> "Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
> Tenena, Tyemuyang 19, 2315 ya 10:54:38 pd
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:55 pm (PDT)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Caves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Did it already! You'll have to go to ZBB to see it, though. :) Got stuck
> on "singularity," thinking it was the mathematical term.
Oh, alright! You twisted my arm! :) Sorry not to have time to put it on a
web site like Carsten! BTW, great job, Carsten!
I see others have been doing their work! It's taken me just as long, if not
longer, but here it is in Teonaht, with a glossary and literal translation.
I've also given it the customary Teonaht rhetorical flourishes.
Keyts, elepmavarn, ban ke prebmal nelry il Pendovar.
Ynnehil! Li pomf, tand karn estro aid fenrem celil hsalyr, nomai pendo; aid
bom-hsoyzar harymhhova ev himhheo mazrodantema nomai lis. Yryi, oy pelman
talmim ain evil fimwe meual tasryht-jo, aiba ryppre: li heo aid elepmar evil
nibronnados ilid estrole karnid tyr evil pi nomai lis. Ynnehil pi! ta voto
prerem oba mivvya ev pelmen takremaiht! Ev umrraco mohsamaka il eryn fymjo
ggrendis ilid poto korn nomai dema! Il heo ilid hsoyzo pomfid harymhova uoa
tebrigresp nuehra volwenjo elepma, send etsa adma nibro niggrendis
hilttembro aiddey: ilid pendole nopt le vohos, ilid hynggendisin nakuebakid
le tibronad, ilid pi le mipo elinadihs, evil dro osinid le freminad kriliar,
send ilid kor le nerha voto mivyemar.
Tyr yppre rendo vyhhtresto kömpnettyrtis fompalisp-il: oba vyhhtresto celil
mahlom tsobfen, aiba fompalisp celil kolvar pompfid tsobkkavar. Keyts oba
vyhhresto! Il elep ilid pendovar ometsa trasl vera; ma aid deuo ommetsa
vesa. Send kwa hdar hsan? Poto mimmywem tand karn bomppendor voggriftihs uo
voto viraned, send hil tennil uo evvaiba hil forfo, ö rembaht esdwa hsoyza.
Literally:
Let us observe, readers, when see beforenow did I (non-volitionally) the
Pendulum!
Behold its sphere, from a wire long its placing in the ceiling does it
habitually hang, its swinging here-there by even-time most kingly does it
get. On my part--although perceive it can any person by its breath serene,
magic-and--this [next] do I know: the duration its controlling by the
fourfold-center of the wire's length by also pi does it get. Behold pi! how
unknowable that number by worldly minds! By a rationality (lit.
reasonableness) greater the around- and across-measure of all circles does
it bind. The duration of the sphere's swinging here-there an agreement
strange and old does rule, and that same by five timeless measurements it
does: of the point's suspension the "not-center"; of the plane's dimensions
(sizes) the duality, of pi the threefold beginning, of the root's nature the
secret fourfoldedness, and of the circle the unnumberable perfection.
Also I know commands a metal-loving engine a cylinder, that engine in the
floor centered, this cylinder in the sphere's bowels hidden. Let's see this
engine! The Law of the Pendulum does it not disturb, but its action it
permits. And why? All objects hanging from a wire weightless
unstretchable-and, and airless and hence frictionless eternally will they
swing.
Re-translated:
Observe, readers, when I first saw the Pendovar!
Behold! its sphere hangs from a long wire placed in the ceiling, swinging
here and there with majestic evenness of time. I, though any one can
perceive it in its calm, magic breathing, know this: that its duration is
governed by the "fourfold root" of the wire's length and by pi. Behold pi!
How irrational is that number to commonplace thought! By a greater
rationality it binds the circumference and the diameter of every circle. An
old and strange agreement rules the duration of the sphere's swinging back
and forth, and it does so by five timeless measurements: the singularity of
the suspension point, the duality of the plane's dimensions, the threefold
beginning of pi, the fourfold secret nature of the root, and the circle's
unnumberable perfection.
I know also that a magnetic machine commands a cylinder, the machine being
centered in the floor, the cylinder in the bowels of the sphere. Let's
observe this engine: It does not disturb the Law of the Pendovar, but allows
its action. And why? All objects haning from a weightless and unstretchable
wire airless and hence frictionless will swing eternally.
THE DIFFICULT WORDS:
pendovar. Where do think THAT comes from?? (pendorem, "hang"; pendovar,
"hanging thing." Probably should be "swinging thing": hsoyzavar)
isochronism. I chose "himhheo," meaning "even duration."
square root. I choose "fourfold" os, a word meaning "inner thing, i.e.,
root, center.
measurement is a Nenddeylyt word, and has a special object case: greddyr,
grendis. For diameter and circumference it was not hard to add around- and
across-measurement.
dimension. This has so many meanings in English already, but for this
purpose I chose "through measurement," which applies to "size" as well as
the mathematical notion of the measurements throughout space.
root. Well, couldn't exactly give my word for plant root, so I chose again
to use os, "center," "inner thing," to make it correspond more closely to a
mathematical term the Teonim might use.
magnetic. "Metal loving"! Kombya is "sexual love, sexual or strong physical
attraction," so that seemed perfect.
cylinder, "that which gets rolled." -isp is a nominal suffix that suggests
an object that gets the action done to it.
friction. I used the word in Teonaht for "rubbing." Easy.
singularity. This was the most difficult word, and it has come about through
decades, centuries of mathematical study. It means so many things. I know
what it means in astrophysics, but I'm not so sure of its mathematical
significance. I did a lot of research, and came up with "no center." Vohos.
A singularity is a point for which a derivative does not exist any longer,
but every "neighborhood" of which contains points for which the derivative
exists. Clear as mud. Googled it, and found similarly worded passages: a
point at which a given mathematical object is not defined. So a point that
has no observed "center" or derivative. I'm only trying to think of how a
Teonaht mathematician might word it. Teonaht mathematics is not something
I've explored, and I imagine all its terms are pre-Terran, and completely
unintelligible.
Sally
An impressive number of people completed this challenge, including the
inventors of Itlani and Aluhrsa, both of whom have a very fluent grasp of
their language! :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carsten Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> As seen on the ZBB. It's a real challenge, but worth it.
>> See: www.beckerscarsten.de/conlang/ayeri/xmp_pendulum.pdf --
>> TRANSLATION CHALLENGE: FOUCAULT'S PENDULUM
>>
>> Or, a challenge for the semioticians - the first page of
>> Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_.
>> This is a relatively complex passage, which should put any
>> conlang through its paces. Is your conlang up to it? Go on,
>> I dare you.
>>
>> << That was when I saw the Pendulum.
>>
>> The sphere, hanging from a long wire set into the ceiling
>> of the choir, swayed back and forth with isochronal majesty.
>>
>> I knew - but anyone could have sensed it in the magic of
>> that serene breathing - that the period was governed by the
>> square root of the length of the wire and by pi, that number
>> which, however irrational to sublunar minds, through a
>> higher rationality binds the circumference and diameter of
>> all possible circles. The time it took the sphere to swing
>> from end to end was determined by an arcane conspiracy
>> between the most timeless of measures: the singularity of
>> the point of suspension, the duality of the plane's
>> dimensions, the triadic beginning of pi, the secret
>> quadratic nature of the root and the unnumbered perfection
>> of the circle itself.
>>
>> I also knew that a magnetic device centred in the floor
>> beneath issued its command to a cylinder hidden in the heart
>> of the sphere, thus assuring continual motion. This device,
>> far from interfering with the law of the Pendulum, in fact
>> permitted its manifestation, for in a vacuum any object
>> hanging from a weightless and unstretchable wire free of air
>> resistance and friction will oscillate for eternity. >>
>>
>> (Dewrad, www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=17730)
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> In the thread on the ZBB this is from there are also
>> translation of the above into Icelandic and Indonesian -- by
>> native speakers, but unfortunately without interlinears or
>> any other explanations.
>>
>> Have fun,
>> Carsten
>>
>> --
>> "Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
>> Tenena, Tyemuyang 19, 2315 ya 10:54:38 pd
>>
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Pieterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:53 am (PDT)
Here's Neimalu:
Méðan tsünam anjas böklöxr miri.
Klüba böklosenja aa tui naos rauðumed ban þaxtapar rumus wemböþöt, ruöns
kwaxarüdosenjat büt ei kizi skövjat. Viti, lu xitu kalja vitilaxtos
egjeþiðöt bernapoþus vütsan, deþombiðu lentiðaus rauðus ei raþea raunuba,
tui naos raþea ei banlidzar ralidzus kaljan büdélean iltrox keizos
zbexilreixtat pri sepum ibertus anja, sküröns tsüna raunoþmed muriti
grada. Iedegivoþ dagjat jon þeam be saanto, atriðuba brazdus wasböklöþn,
deþiðuba þexitraus baus, pjegenjiðuba deirexus raþeaus, goðuba xirexus
leaþus, ei sköviðuba ilraunélea seus ralidzuba kweköns saanur xta klüba
þarböns avt ruos brazdant atridas brazdant aljas.
Tsawa viti xta bemu mei tauximolmum pari bambaar poduogaus ziléwöns tüpet
tui inu waslübendöns ban bambaar klübaus bjazui ruieinilaxtos asu. Bemu
anja unat lüs mertétos timjézar böklöxs, dem entitsi: ta dosöþn asus
wasmeos avti bemu kalja tui böklos rauðumed be xeviðum ei maujum tui lüs
beilentéleos ei lüs lémuos ei xta mauju lüs igradegivos, ruilaxtos büt ei kizi.
Translation:
During moment that pendulum I.saw.
Sphere hanging that which connected wire-INSTR in roof room-POSS
singing-GEN, move isochronally away and back beautifully. I, like people all
be-able-to-know specialness-ABL breathing-POSS calm, square-root length-POSS
wire-POSS and pi number-PRED, that connects pi and diameter circle-POSS all
makeable despite be like.unreally for mind earth-POSS this, controlled
moment measurement-INSTR more good. Together-working secretly by measurement
without time, oneness-PRED point-POSS suspention-POSS, twoness-PRED
measurements-POSS place-POSS, beginning-PRED group-of-three-POSS pi-POSS,
nature-PRED group-of-four-POSS root-POSS, and beauty-PRED uncountable
self-POSS circle-PRED determined time that sphere needed to move point-ALL
first point-ALL other.
Also I.knew that thing with magnet under center floor-POSS gave-command
cylinder-GEN that one has-hidden in center sphere-POSS so
move.continue.be-able-to that. Thing that surely not damages law
pendulum-POSS, but opposite-of.that: that working that-POSS allowed because
object all that hangs wire-INSTR without weight and air that not
is-able-to-make-longer and not frictions and that air not work-against,
is-able-to-move away and back.
INSTR: instrumental
GEN: accusative genitive
PRED: predicative
POSS: possissive genitive
ABL: ablative
ALL: allative
Words:
* sphere: ball
* pendulum: böklos to hang; böklox a thing that hangs
* isochronally: kwaxarüdosenjat; kwa- equal, arüdoþ duration, -osenjat
being + adverbial
* pi: raþea; ra round, circular + þea measurement
* square root: deþombiðu; deþu two + -ombu to the power of + -iðu -ness
* diameter: banlidzu; ban inside + lidzu line
* magnet: tauximolmu; tauxos to pull + molmu bronze
Pieterson
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:50 pm (PDT)
And here it is in Kash....
http://cinduworld.tripod.com/foucault.pdf
lendi nolit! (happy reading!)
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:24 pm (PDT)
Hi!
Roger Mills writes:
> And here it is in Kash....
> http://cinduworld.tripod.com/foucault.pdf
>
> lendi nolit! (happy reading!)
>...
'Fu Kòw (Fukawu) himself was a Gwr.'
Hahaha! :-)
I like it!
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Nahuatl sound files?
Posted by: "Dirk Elzinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:51 pm (PDT)
Henrik:
Have you looked at www.sil.org? There are plenty of SIL types who work
with various varieties of Nahuatl and they may have information
(including sound files) posted somewhere ...
Bingo. http://www.sil.org/mexico/nahuatl/00i-Nahuatl.htm
Scroll down to "Specific varieties of Nahuatl"; there are links to
pages which have sound files.
Also, the Friends of Uto-Aztecan Conference is coming up at the end of
August; if I remember I can ask then (I would not take it amiss if you
were to remind me).
Dirk
On 7/28/06, Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Can anyone point me to WWW resourses for spoken Nahuatl?
>
> Bye,
> Henrik
>
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Nahuatl sound files?
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:49 am (PDT)
Hi!
Dirk Elzinga writes:
> Henrik:
>
> Have you looked at www.sil.org? There are plenty of SIL types who work
> with various varieties of Nahuatl and they may have information
> (including sound files) posted somewhere ...
>
> Bingo. http://www.sil.org/mexico/nahuatl/00i-Nahuatl.htm
>
> Scroll down to "Specific varieties of Nahuatl"; there are links to
> pages which have sound files.
>...
Thanks! I was on the site but did not find the right links, it seems...
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. META: Happy Birthday List
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:00 am (PDT)
Happy Birthday Mailinglist!
As far as I know, this thing here was started on July 29, 1991, which was 15
years ago.
Cheers,
Carsten (who will leave for BS in an hour)
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5a. Re: Another word generator I've made
Posted by: "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:13 am (PDT)
Hi Sam,
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 Sam Drost wrote:
>
> I've finally gotten around to converting my word generator
> scripts to Java.
> If you want to look at the new app, it's at
> http://www.fantomx11.com/conlang/index.php
I've downloaded and played with it a bit. It's fun!
> I did not make it as an applet (I personally hate those) that runs in your
> browser, it is a downloadable application. In case you are unfamiliar
with
> how Java applications work, the .jar file is the executable.
I created a batch file to run it straight from a shortcut
in my Languages folder on the desktop.
> I've also included a saved file so one can immediately see what
> it does and a text file briefly explaining how to use it.
That explanation would probably be fine for those who
didn't need it! ;-)
I've created a simple Wordgen rules file, which I've called
"faizirauzutoktanusi.wg" after one of its output words.
After some experimentation, these are its rules:
BASE:
<INIT><VOWEL><FIN>
<INIT><DIP1><INTER><BASE>
DIP1:
a
e
o
FIN:
k
kta
ktanu
ktanusi
INIT:
m
s
f
w
l
r
y
c
t
INTER:
izi
uzu
VOWEL:
a
e
i
o
u
Sample Output (1):
yektanu
rek
rekta
cauzumouzutaktanusi
muktanu
wektanu
rouzuteuzureuzumeiziyoktanusi
wektanu
maiziweuzumoiziwouzutak
luk
Sample Output (2):
reuzufiktanu
waktanu
rakta
taizilauzucektanusi
liktanusi
leiziyouzuyaizifaktanu
cuktanusi
tauzusauzuwok
youzuyaizimeuzumekta
cektanu
An earlier version that included a form <BASE><BASE>
in the rule <BASE> quickly produced some quite enormous
words!
Now, please tell me, are there any other ways of combining
letters or letter classes than by simply stringing them
together? For example, is there a way of controlling the
probabilities of the occurence of a particular vowel out of
the set of all vowels? It did occur to me to fudge this by
listing some vowels repeatedly; however, a neater approach
would be:
12 a
20 e
12 i
7 o
20 u
to have the vowel a occur 12/71 of the time, e 20/71 of
the time, etc, wit hthe sum being calculated automatically
i.e. without needing to specify the relative occurrences as,
say, percentages.
Regards,
Yahya
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/402 - Release Date: 27/7/06
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: Another word generator I've made
Posted by: "Sam Drost" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:09 am (PDT)
I've snipped my original message for brevity.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yahya Abdal-Aziz
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 11:56 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Another word generator I've made
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I've downloaded and played with it a bit. It's fun!
I'm glad you are enjoying it. That is, of course, the main goal of
conlanging, at least for me.
> That explanation would probably be fine for those who
> didn't need it! ;-)
Probably true, but then I'm not much of a teacher :/
> An earlier version that included a form <BASE><BASE>
> in the rule <BASE> quickly produced some quite enormous
> words!
Yes, you definitely want to be careful when making circular references.
They would iterate forever since I didn't program any limits to it except
you'll eventually get an error because of too many recursive calls.
> Now, please tell me, are there any other ways of combining
> letters or letter classes than by simply stringing them
> together? For example, is there a way of controlling the
> probabilities of the occurence of a particular vowel out of
> the set of all vowels? It did occur to me to fudge this by
> listing some vowels repeatedly; however, a neater approach would be:
>
> 12 a
> 20 e
> 12 i
> 7 o
> 20 u
>
> to have the vowel a occur 12/71 of the time, e 20/71 of
> the time, etc, wit hthe sum being calculated automatically
> i.e. without needing to specify the relative occurrences as,
> say, percentages.
I plan on implementing something similar to this, but I haven't gotten
around to it yet. Anyway, if you know Java and are interested, I'm more
than willing to send you a copy of the source code so you can make that
adjustment yourself. Of course, along with the slight documentation, I also
have no comments in the code, but it's not a whole lot of code only about
100 lines are relevent to the actual word generator.
Sam
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6. Re: Saruban tadayam ayedawi -- or, Goodbye for now!
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:15 am (PDT)
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:46:55 -0700, Peter Ara Guekguezian
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>IIRC, Jörg Rhiemeier is from Braunschweig (at least it says so on his
>ZBB profile). Is it impossible for him to be sort of a conduit or
>internet-enabler for you to speak with us?
>
>-kodé (PAG)
Hi,
Yes, Jörg also lives there, but no, it's not necessary for him to play the
"messenger". I guess I will be able to check my mails and stuff maybe in the
lunch break if I ask politely. It depends of course on the department staff
and on the department head. Shouldn't be impossible to get my mails every
now and then myself.
Carsten (who will leave in an hour)
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
7a. Re: composite preposition with two opposite meanings
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:48 am (PDT)
"in case of" could mean either of your interpretations in this case,
actually, because articles are generally omitted in such expressions
(aren't they).
to me, "in the case of" usually refers to situations where, say.,
someone is giving examples: e.g. "while with X this product behaves
like this, in the case of Y such an effect is totally non-existent".
2006/7/29, Eric Christopherson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I forgot about another expression where the presence or absence of
> "the" matters - "in case of" vs. "in the case of." "Wear galoshes in
> case of rain" means to wear galoshes regardless of whether it
> actually rains or not, because it might; whereas "wear galoshes in
> the case of rain" means only to wear them if it does in fact rain.
>
> (Actually, maybe I'm wrong; the second sentence sounds strange to me
> now. I think I would have to change it to "in the case of rain, wear
> galoshes" or even "in the case of it raining, wear galoshes" for it
> to sound natural. Also it just occurred to me that "in the case
> of ..." usually seems to refer back to something already mentioned,
> whereas "in case of ..." doesn't necessarily. Still, it always
> strikes me as odd when I see a fire alarm switch with the message "In
> case of fire break glass and pull handle," because I interpret that
> to mean that, in any event, I should break the glass, just in case a
> fire breaks out :) )
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7b. Re: composite preposition with two opposite meanings
Posted by: "Ph.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:58 pm (PDT)
Eric Christopherson wrote:
>
> I forgot about another expression where the presence
> or absence of "the" matters - "in case of" vs. "in the
> case of." "Wear galoshes in case of rain" means to
> wear galoshes regardless of whether it actually rains
> or not, because it might; whereas "wear galoshes in
> the case of rain" means only to wear them if it does
> in fact rain.
[snip]
Something similar happens with "few." Consider:
If you put that book on eBay, there'll be few takers.
i.e., I believe no one will be interested. But
If you put that book on eBay, there'll be a few takers.
i.e., I believe several people will be interested.
"few" vs. "a few"
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
8. Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:15 am (PDT)
Hallo!
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:09:26 +0200, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> Well, the subject line says it all:
> What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?
> Sure _paidía_ is feminine in Greek, but
> one can never be sure. It might even be
> neuter plural! ;-)
_Wikipedia_ is feminine, probably because _Enzyklopädie_ is also feminine,
and because it ends in -a, and most words in -a are feminine. _Wiki_, though,
is neuter.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
9a. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
Posted by: "Kalle Bergman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:58 am (PDT)
> Do you know the origins of those clitics?
Not really, although I suppose the masculine version
is probably related to the indefinite article "en".
> And does anyone know of other languages that do
that?
Natlangs, I have no idea. I know Lojban has something
similar, with the article (or "sumti" whatever the
term is in lojban) "la".
/Kalle B
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
9b. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:57 am (PDT)
Hi!
Eric Christopherson writes:
>...
> > I think it's an interesting feature.
>
> It's very interesting! I have thought about including something like
> it in a conlang, but so far haven't quite done it. Do you know the
> origins of those clitics? And does anyone know of other languages
> that do that?
>...
My conlang S11 has a similar thing, but mainly for ensuring
self-segregation for foreign words: you prefix the word with
(something similar to) pani- and suffix it will -it. The -i- may be a
different vowels and the -a- is adjusted to obey vowel harmony.
I have not thought about native names, though, but if they will need
marking, it will be different from the one used for ensuring
self-segregation.
Anyway, Chinese has a name marker used when no title or given name is
used, probably because using just one syllable is too ambiguous. I
posted this already a while ago (seen on a van):
Li3 shi4 Ya4zhou1 Shi2pin3 Gong1si1
Li <the_name> Asian Food Company
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
9c. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:15 am (PDT)
* Eric Christopherson said on 2006-07-29 01:13:01 +0200
> On Jul 28, 2006, at 7:05 AM, Kalle Bergman wrote:
>
> >Makes me think of my dad's dialect, which has a
> >special set of clitics used with names of people, when
> >those names are used to refer to a person by that
> >name.
> >
> >Jag såg n'Ove
> >I saw Ove
> >
> >And
> >
> >Jag såg a'Karin
> >I saw Karin
> >
> >I think it's an interesting feature.
>
> Do you know the origins of those clitics? And does anyone know of
> other languages that do that?
It's a still living phenomenon in several dialects of Norwegian and it
comes from the third person singular pronouns.
"Hainn Ola tok ut båten i morres" -> "n'Ola tok ut båten i morres"
He-Ola took the boat and left this morning
t.
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
9d. Re: Name clitics (was Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in
Posted by: "Philip Newton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:08 pm (PDT)
On 7/29/06, Kalle Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know Lojban has something
> similar, with the article (or "sumti" whatever the
> term is in lojban) "la".
I believe "gadri" is the term you're looking for.
I vaguely recall Dana Nutter's Sasxsek having a similar name-article, BICBW.
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
10. Re: FW: Translation Challenge: Foucault's Pendulum
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:07 am (PDT)
--- Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a relatively complex passage, which should put any
> conlang through its paces. Is your conlang up to it? Go on,
> I dare you.
>
> << That was when I saw the Pendulum.
>
Piece of cake: Atthay asway enwhe Iyay awsay ethay endulumpay.
;-)
--gary
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
11. Re: Takiyyudin phonology, and the starling's song
Posted by: "Shreyas Sampat" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:49 pm (PDT)
John Vertical wrote:
> I don't think I'll bother. I mean, this *was* just a random example
> that doesn't necessarily have a solution, right?
Well, it's a system that doesn't necc. have a historical solution; it's
designed under other constraints. I wouldn't call that "random".
So I started translating the starling's song...
T. allows, but doesn't require, incorporation into verb forms. Verbs
have a default argument arrangement where case markers aren't required;
reordering the arguments within the verb or pulling them out of it
requires case markers in anything moved leftward.
It's considered most elegant if you are able to use the
fully-incorporated forms at all times, partly because of the challenge
of stepping around words that are obligatorily one colour. It's somewhat
a luxury to spend all the time and energy learning traditional poetic
kennings for colour-switches.
This text isn't gonna do that, partly because I find it more interesting
to use both strategies, and partly because I don't have the vocab yet.
Of heroic deeds does the starling's song sing.
Idairisuse'tzaigoshmo' khengmiluusjaiisu'daitayahin.
idair-isu-se'tzai(G)-gosh-mo' khengmil-uusjai(B)-isu'-daita-yahin
glory-GEN-deed -MANY-ACC sing -starling -GEN -song -IMP.PRES
The heron its clothes in the morning rain washes.
Iighamghayanglisupenenjichinisuellasghashtsengyahin.
iigham-ghayang(B)-lisu-penen -jichin -isu-ellas-ghash-tseng-yahin
wash -heron -its -clothing-morning-GEN-rain -MANY -LOC -IMP.PRES
-Shreyas
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
