There are 18 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: Dirk Elzinga
1b. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: Herman Miller
1c. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: Dana Nutter
1d. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: Dirk Elzinga
1e. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: H. S. Teoh
1f. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
From: Henrik Theiling
2a. Listen to Languages
From: Henrik Theiling
2b. Re: Listen to Languages
From: Herman Miller
2c. Re: Listen to Languages
From: Mark J. Reed
2d. Re: Listen to Languages
From: Hanuman Zhang
3. Re: Conlang Flag as Vector Image
From: Ph.D.
4a. Senjecas on Wikifrath
From: caeruleancentaur
4b. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
From: Herman Miller
4c. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
From: caeruleancentaur
4d. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
From: caeruleancentaur
5a. Re: Phonology sketch
From: Henrik Theiling
5b. Re: Phonology sketch
From: John Vertical
5c. Re: Phonology sketch
From: Henrik Theiling
Messages
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1a. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "Dirk Elzinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:54 pm (PDT)
On 8/10/06, Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dirk Elzinga wrote:
> > On 8/9/06, Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Dirk Elzinga wrote:
> > > > So in the word [táppùni] 'a rabbit'...
>
> > > Was that "tapune" in an earlier incarnation? I see I've borrowed it into
> > > Kash as _tavun_ 'a shy mammal sp., agricultural pest; hunted and eaten
> > > by
> > > farmers'.
> >
> > Yes, it's the same word....So you borrowed it into Kash? I'm flattered!
>
> I also got Kash _poya_ '(a trickster-type animal)' < your .... 'coyote'
> IIRC, and _ñuña_ 'sticky resin' < your .... 'pine resin'. These were from a
> story that involved coyote, I think, juggling his eyeballs, or something
> like that. It also produced the Kash word for 'juggle' _findoro_, but I
> think that's a priori. :-)))))
Right! I had forgotten that I did that story; I'll have to take a look
at it again. "Eye Juggler" is actually a traditional Great Basin tale;
each group (Paiutes, Goshutes, Utes, Shoshonis) has its own variants
of it (usually multiple variants). Here are the words which gave rise
to the Kash words:
[pɨja] 'coyote'
[ŋúja] 'pine sap'
[wɨβɨ] 'throw' (no word for 'juggle'; I'm guessing it would be derived
from 'throw')
Dirk, who is actually getting some work done on Miapimoquitch ...
Messages in this topic (40)
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1b. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:26 pm (PDT)
Dana Nutter wrote:
> li [Christian Thalmann] mi tulis la
>> --- In [email protected], Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, do others also have such a hard time finding personally
>>> pleasing phonologies? I find it awefully difficult.
>> Not at all, I absolutely love making phonologies. Disappointingly
>> (?), I usually end up with rather simple vowel systems, and no
>> hard-to-pronounce consonants. But maybe that's just the recipe
>> for pleasing phonologies? It seems to work for Quenya, IMHO the
>> hallmark of pleasing phonology.
>
> I've started workiing a personal language and designed the phonology for
> my own preferences as below. The romanizations are also shown but there
> is a "native" script for it also.
>
>
> X-SAMPA: A b x d D e f g h i j k l m n N o p G r s S t T u v w @
> y z Z
> Romanized: A B C D � E F G H I J K L M N ? O P Q R S � T � U V W X
> Y Z
>
>
> I may change /y/ to /1/ though.
I really ought to try that one of these days. Maybe my next 'lang will
be a "personal preferences" language, based on the features of languages
that I find most pleasing or "coolest", or otherwise notable.
Of course, many of the sounds in my other languages have been selected
because I liked them, but others to complete a pattern or alternatively
to include an unusual sound for the sake of being rare (like the
retroflex lateral fricative in Lindiga). On the other hand, I rarely
include sounds that are hard for me to pronounce (like the uvular trill).
Messages in this topic (40)
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1c. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "Dana Nutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:59 am (PDT)
li [Herman Miller] mi tulis la
> Dana Nutter wrote:
> > ...
> > I've started workiing a personal language and designed the
> phonology for
> > my own preferences as below. The romanizations are also
> shown but there
> > is a "native" script for it also.
> >
> >
> > X-SAMPA: A b x d D e f g h i j k l m n N o p G r s S t T u v w @
> > y z Z
> > Romanized: A B C D � E F G H I J K L M N ? O P Q R S � T � U V W X
> > Y Z
> >
> >
> > I may change /y/ to /1/ though.
>
> I really ought to try that one of these days. Maybe my next
> 'lang will
> be a "personal preferences" language, based on the features
> of languages
> that I find most pleasing or "coolest", or otherwise notable.
>
> Of course, many of the sounds in my other languages have been
> selected
> because I liked them, but others to complete a pattern or
> alternatively
> to include an unusual sound for the sake of being rare (like the
> retroflex lateral fricative in Lindiga). On the other hand, I rarely
> include sounds that are hard for me to pronounce (like the
> uvular trill).
I'm glad you mentioned that because I noticed I made a mistake above.
/r/ should have been /R\/ (uvular trill). I find that much easier than
/4/.
/D/ and /T/ could be considered "unusual" since they don't occur in most
languages, but as a native anglophone they come naturally, and I like
the way they sound.
My other projects are mostly auxlangs or experimental languages so they
tend to have phonogies designed for the target speakers rather than what
I like.
------------------------------
dejnx nxtxr / Dana Nutter
LI SASXSEK LATIS.
http://www.nutter.net/sasxsek
Messages in this topic (40)
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1d. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "Dirk Elzinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:29 pm (PDT)
I wanted to reply to this earlier, but got sidetracked by work. I hope
it is still timely.
On 8/9/06, Jeffrey Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have trouble with making a really good phonology as opposed to a passable
> one. I also have the problem of putting the phonology and morphology
> together. That is I can come up with a morphology I like and an acceptable
> phonology, but can't come up with a set of affixes (or whatever) that works
> well.
I think that a strict segregation of morphology and phonology is
probably a mistake in lg creation, whatever your analytical
predilections are. For me, most of the interest in morphology is in
its interaction with phonological forms. Stuff like ablaut, mutation,
root-and-pattern inflection, and reduplication depend heavily on the
phonological makeup of the language. If you have a morphology you like
(that is, you make distinctions among categories you think are
interesting and useful) look at making the morphology more dependent
on the sound structure of words--try out some ablaut, mutation, etc to
liven up both the phonology and morphology.
> P.S. more details of Miapimoquitch will be welcome.
I'm hoping to finish the morphology section of the grammar by the end
of the month; I'll be sure to let the list know when it's done.
Dirk
Messages in this topic (40)
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1e. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:07 pm (PDT)
On Fri, Aug 11, 2006 at 04:19:30PM -0600, Dirk Elzinga wrote:
[...]
> I think that a strict segregation of morphology and phonology is
> probably a mistake in lg creation, whatever your analytical
> predilections are.
Wow, this has got to be one of those gems of insight that make it
worthwhile to be on CONLANG. :-)
> For me, most of the interest in morphology is in its interaction with
> phonological forms. Stuff like ablaut, mutation, root-and-pattern
> inflection, and reduplication depend heavily on the phonological
> makeup of the language. If you have a morphology you like (that is,
> you make distinctions among categories you think are interesting and
> useful) look at making the morphology more dependent on the sound
> structure of words--try out some ablaut, mutation, etc to liven up
> both the phonology and morphology.
[...]
That's a very good idea. I think I should look into the phonological
interactions of Tatari Faran's morphology. Right now, much of it in TF
is still rather dry. Thinking over the idea in the context of natlangs,
though---it is very true that morphology is heavily tied to phonology,
and the two interact with each other in very interesting ways. I should
keep that in mind next time---I have a tendency to over-analyse and
compartmentalize things, which isn't always the best idea.
T
--
The best compiler is between your ears. -- Michael Abrash
Messages in this topic (40)
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1f. Re: Euphonic phonology (Was: 'Nor' in the World's Languages)
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:46 pm (PDT)
Hi!
Dirk Elzinga writes:
>...
> I think that a strict segregation of morphology and phonology is
> probably a mistake in lg creation, whatever your analytical
> predilections are. For me, most of the interest in morphology is in
> its interaction with phonological forms. ...
Very true. I often failed when I tried to use a phonology 'module'
for a conlang. As most of my previous conlangs were engelangs, I
tried to separate steps, for the sake of getting reusable 'modules',
one of them being a phonology module. However, when designing a new
language, it turned out that aspects from the phonology would
influence morphology design quite automatically. Actually, I could
not simply replace any phonology easily because it was always tight to
much to the grammar.
E.g. in Qþyn|gài, the consonants are used to represent semantic
categories, the atomic part of the lexicon from which roots are
derived (root = category + another consonant, stem = root + vowel).
If I replaced the phonology, it would have to adhere to certain
constraints, e.g. it must have exactly 40 consonants and it must have
CVCV stems. At least if I don't want to change the grammar. (Of
course, such constraints are a bit different from interactions you
might get in naturalistic conlangs.)
And in S11 (wordless lang), word and morpheme boundaries are shown by
consonant mutation, which would need a total rework when replacing the
phonology. (In this case, it may even happen that I replace the
phonology, but it will require a lot of reworking and may even result
in a new conlang.)
And there's also interaction between morphology and syntax and also
morphosyntax or phonology and lexicon, which makes conlanging so much
fun. :-)
> > P.S. more details of Miapimoquitch will be welcome.
>
> I'm hoping to finish the morphology section of the grammar by the end
> of the month; I'll be sure to let the list know when it's done.
Oh yes, please!
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (40)
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2a. Listen to Languages
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:07 pm (PDT)
Hi!
I found a good resource for listening at many quite interesting
languages. Many are in very good recording quality. And there are
*a lot* of languages. It is a religious site.
E.g. for a nice Koisan language with a lot of clicks:
http://globalrecordings.net/program/C07480
Or for Nuxalk (or Bella Coola, the famous language of people having
had in their possession a bunchberry tree [xKp_>X_wKtKpK:sk_wts)_>]):
http://globalrecordings.net/program/C13810
Enjoy!
Bye,
Henrik
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Listen to Languages
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:11 pm (PDT)
Henrik Theiling wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I found a good resource for listening at many quite interesting
> languages. Many are in very good recording quality. And there are
> *a lot* of languages. It is a religious site.
Regardless of the message, it sounds really nice in Albanian! :-)
> E.g. for a nice Koisan language with a lot of clicks:
>
> http://globalrecordings.net/program/C07480
>
> Or for Nuxalk (or Bella Coola, the famous language of people having
> had in their possession a bunchberry tree [xKp_>X_wKtKpK:sk_wts)_>]):
>
> http://globalrecordings.net/program/C13810
They're going to wonder why their Lithuanian recordings are suddenly so
popular. :-)
Nice find. I'm listening to Aymara at the moment. This will keep me busy
for a while....
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Listen to Languages
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:51 am (PDT)
On 8/10/06, Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I found a good resource for listening at many quite interesting
> languages. Many are in very good recording quality. And there are
> *a lot* of languages.
Cool!
It is a religious site.
Well, thank (the) [Gg]od(s) for crazy religious people and their zeal to
spread their gospel. A whole lot of linguistic work would never have gotten
done otherwise. And we get nifty websites like that one. :)
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: Listen to Languages
Posted by: "Hanuman Zhang" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:56 am (PDT)
on 8/11/06 5:41 AM, Mark J. Reed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 8/10/06, Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It is a religious site.
Well, thank (the) [Gg]od(s) for crazy religious people and their zeal to
spread their gospel. A whole lot of linguistic work would never have gotten
done otherwise. And we get nifty websites like that one. :)
*snicker-snarlfle*
I just hafta wonder how accurate the translations are since certain
worldviews are so vastly different from (Western) Civilized ones.
I recall that one Amazonian tribe does not have words for "worship" and
"pray"... that the closest (and rather kludgey) equivalent is "wag one's
tail at the gods."
--
Hanuman Zhang
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because,
if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason,
then that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
"...divine chaos ...rumors of chaos have been known to enhance the mature
religious vision.... for the godhead manifests no more of its reality than
the limited grammar of each person's imagination and conceptual system can
handle.
"A second advantage is suggested by William James in _Varieties of
Religious Experience_. James affirms the possibilty of many gods, mostly
because he takes seriously his multiverse theory of personal monads, each
one of us experiencing a unique religious revelation.
"An orderly monistic and monotheistic system, he fears, might succumb to
a craving for logical coherence, and trim away some of the mystery, rich
indeterminancy, and tragic ambiguity in a complete numinous experience.
"For some temperaments, the ambivalent gentleness and savagery of fate
can be imagined effectively in a godhead split into personified attributes,
sometimes at war, sometimes in shifting alliance."
- Vernon Ruland, _Eight Sacred Horizons: The Religious Imagination East
and West_
Messages in this topic (4)
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3. Re: Conlang Flag as Vector Image
Posted by: "Ph.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:21 pm (PDT)
Henrik Theiling wrote:
>
> Arthaey Angosii writes:
> > Does anyone have a vector version of the conlang
> > flag file? I can reverse-engineer my own from the
> > PNGs out there if I must, but presumably *someone*
> > has an original Photoshop (, PaintShop Pro, Gimp,
> > what have you) project file.
>
> An SVG version was posted once:
>
>
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0512D&L=CONLANG&P=R1922&;
I=-3
>
> I've uploaded a copy to my page, too:
>
> http://www.kunstsprachen.de/conlang-flag.svg
>
> In my browser, however, there is a rendering bug, but I know the
> browser is not very trustworthy wrt. SVG. Hopefully you are more
> lucky.
I have a vector version that I made in CorelDraw 8. I will be
happy to send it to anyone who wants a copy.
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Senjecas on Wikifrath
Posted by: "caeruleancentaur" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:05 pm (PDT)
I have finally gotten Senjecas to a stage where I can present it to
the public. It's at http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas.
I finished the grammar today. I wanted to get that posted before
going public.
A number of the writings have to be retranslated. I did them early in
the language's development & made some changes in grammar &
orthography along the way.
There is no room for the complete lexicon, but I did make a file of
the basic 1948 root words &, of course, there is the Swadesh list.
I'm looking forward to feedback.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:41 pm (PDT)
caeruleancentaur wrote:
> I have finally gotten Senjecas to a stage where I can present it to
> the public. It's at http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas.
>
> I finished the grammar today. I wanted to get that posted before
> going public.
>
> A number of the writings have to be retranslated. I did them early in
> the language's development & made some changes in grammar &
> orthography along the way.
>
> There is no room for the complete lexicon, but I did make a file of
> the basic 1948 root words &, of course, there is the Swadesh list.
>
> I'm looking forward to feedback.
>
> Charlie
Interesting stuff. There's too much to comment on in one post, but I did
notice the resemblance to Indo-European, with words like "rűűðis" for
"red", and "ɱirũesc̆e ğenűesc̆e" meaning "men and women". I happened to
run across "ɱiɱe̋res" and thought it looked somehow familar -- then I
remembered a recent Google search and ran across this:
http://www2.arnes.si/~ssnmcrnom5/bela/mzupancic/VEVERICA.htm
Is there a regular correspondence between Senyecan and PIE sounds, or is
the situation more complicated?
Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
Posted by: "caeruleancentaur" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:46 pm (PDT)
>caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It's at http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas.
I didn't realize that period at the end would make a difference. Try
http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas
Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: Senjecas on Wikifrath
Posted by: "caeruleancentaur" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:07 am (PDT)
>Herman Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Interesting stuff. There's too much to comment on in one post, but
>I did notice the resemblance to Indo-European, with words
>like "rűűð>is" for "red", and "ɱirÅ©escÌe ÄenűescÌe"
>meaning "men and women".
I used Pokorny's "Indogermanishes Wörterbuch" as the source of the
Senjecas vocabulary. The book was published before the laryngeals
were accepted theory, and I am grateful. I did this research before
PC's were the norm. I went to the library & copied by hand from the
tome what I needed!
>Is there a regular correspondence between Senyecan and PIE sounds,
>or is the situation more complicated?
The mythos of the conculture requires a strict & uniform system of
sounds. So I scrunched the Pokorny consonants into a grid with the
following results, Senjecas /X-sampa/ < Pokorny:
Labials:
p /p/ < p
b /b/ < b
f /p\/ < ph
v /B/ < bh
µ /m_0/ < w
m /m/ < m
Dentals:
t /t/ < t
d /d/ < d
þ /T/ < th
ð /D/ < dh
£ /l_0/ < gwh
l /l/ < l
Alveolars:
ç /ts)/ < k^ (Pokorny puts a circumflex over the letter to indicate
velar.
ß /dz)/ < g^
s /s/ < s
z /z/ < z
r /4_0/ < r
n /n/ < n
Palatals:
c /c/ < k
g /J\/ < g
x /C/ < kh
q /j\/ < gh
ÿ /j_0/ < g^h
j /j/ < i (consonant)
The vowels are the "standard" five plus /O/. I took /O/ from
syllabic /r\/. At first I was using /2/ or /3/, but they didn't fit
so neatly in my grid. Thus Pokorny's "wir-", man, becomes in
Senjecas _µîrus_, as you noticed. Pokorny differntiates between
long & short vowels & I have kept that. In the standard orthography
the long vowels are represented by a double grapheme.
>I happened to run across "ɱiɱeÌres" and thought it looked
>somehow familar -- then I remembered a recent Google search and ran
>across this:
Pokorny gives "wiwer-" as a root meaning "squirrel." It is actually
a root meaning "brown" with a reduplicated initial consonant.
English has the word "viverrine" meaning belonging to the
Viverridae, i.e., the civets & mongooses.
>http://www2.arnes.si/~ssnmcrnom5/bela/mzupancic/VEVERICA.htm
This is an interesting site. I assume it's in Czech, but I'm no
expert. Familiar to me also is the word "jelen" for some kind of
deer. There is a PIE root "elen-" which means a deer. And "volk,"
wolf, is from the PIE root "wlkwo-." And the bear is "medbar,"
which has to do with honey-eating. The PIE root "medhu-" is given
as meaning honey or mead.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Phonology sketch
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:25 am (PDT)
Hi!
John Vertical writes:
> With all the overall phonology discussion goïng on, here's one I've
> started recently. Comments welcome, altho it's pretty unfinished. I'm
> posting this more to show my working techniq.
>
> Onsets:
> /p p_l t t_w tK tS tS_w k k_w/
> /b b_l d d_w dK\ dZ dZ_w g g_w/
> /P P_l T T_w s s_w K h/
> /m m_l n n_w n_l/
I like the design. Especially when comparing with some Salishan
languages, is does not feel at all far-fetched -- the lateralisation
is a nice extension. Have you considered adding ejectives and/or
uvulars? It would fit, I think, again with Salishan languages in
mind. :-)
>...
> I'm also thinking a third stop series might fit in, but I can't think
> what it could be. Hmong has prenasalization, but I'm not trying to
> make a clone of it. Ejectivs don't feel like they'd fit well together
> with lateralization,
>...
Ah, you have. Why not? I can pronounce it and the ejective lateral
affricate /tK)_>/ at least is quite common. :-)
As to prenasalisation, I am very fond of it as an allophonic variant
of voiced stops. I think Hakka has it, I'm not completely sure; it
was a Chinese language on Taiwan, IIRC. I got the idea from there and
implemented it in Qþyn|gài (S7), which has /t/ [t] vs /d/ [nd]
etc. (also for its clicks). (BTW, it also has lateralistion, but for
/t/ and /q/ and realised as [tK] vs. /qK/). S7 does not include many
clusters, but in the current sketch of S11, the same contrast exists
and the prenasalisation is lost when another consonant precedes, so
/aba/ [amba] vs. /alba/ [alba].
Just a though...
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Phonology sketch
Posted by: "John Vertical" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:32 pm (PDT)
Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > Onsets:
> > /p p_l t t_w tK tS tS_w k k_w/
> > /b b_l d d_w dK\ dZ dZ_w g g_w/
> > /P P_l T T_w s s_w K h/
> > /m m_l n n_w n_l/
>
>I like the design. Especially when comparing with some Salishan
>languages, is does not feel at all far-fetched -- the lateralisation
>is a nice extension. Have you considered adding ejectives and/or
>uvulars? It would fit, I think, again with Salishan languages in
>mind. :-)
I'm not too familiar with that family. I recall them having lots of
affricates, glottalization and uvulars. (And polysynthesis, but that's not
really in the question here.) Wouldn't hurt to look closer, I gess.
Uvulars still probably won't make it here; I don't have anything against
them per_se, but I just find them not fitting euphonically together with
many other sounds or features.
> > I'm also thinking a third stop series might fit in, but I can't think
> > what it could be. Hmong has prenasalization, but I'm not trying to
> > make a clone of it. Ejectivs don't feel like they'd fit well together
> > with lateralization,
> >...
>
>Ah, you have. Why not? I can pronounce it and the ejective lateral
>affricate /tK)_>/ at least is quite common. :-)
/tK)_>/ is not really the issue (altho ejectiv affricates _are_ among the
most difficult sounds for me); it's /p_l_>/ that sounds a bit, er, silly.
There is the ol' "labial ejectivs may be missing from an otherwise regular
system" loophole, but this phonology was supposed to have a prepondence of
labials over dorsals, and that would go counter to that emphasis.
Maybe the extra medial series are already enuff after all; there's still
room for tweakery with the plosiv coda.
>As to prenasalisation, I am very fond of it as an allophonic variant
>of voiced stops. I think Hakka has it, I'm not completely sure; it
>was a Chinese language on Taiwan, IIRC. (...)
>
>**Henrik
Not at least according to Wikipedia; but coïncidentally, it does seem to
have a "partially complementary" distribution of plosiv finals... might be
worth a shot to look into Middle Chinese etc. to see how that came along.
John Vertical
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
5c. Re: Phonology sketch
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:59 pm (PDT)
Hi!
John Vertical writes:
>...
> /tK)_>/ is not really the issue (altho ejectiv affricates _are_
> among the most difficult sounds for me); it's /p_l_>/ that sounds a
> bit, er, silly. ...
...testing... Indeed. But a) native speakers of your lang might feel
differently, b) it works. :-)
>... There is the ol' "labial ejectivs may be missing from an
> otherwise regular system" loophole, but this phonology was supposed
> to have a prepondence of labials over dorsals, and that would go
> counter to that emphasis. ...
Ah, ok.
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (4)
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