There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Lexicon storage methodology
From: Feaelin Moilar
2a. OT: Latex Help
From: Chris Bates
2b. Re: OT: Latex Help
From: taliesin the storyteller
2c. Re: OT: Latex Help
From: Chris Bates
3. Re: THEORY: "Quirky" Case -- "Quirky" Subjects and "Quirky" Objects
From: Eldin Raigmore
4. Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Henrik Theiling
Messages
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1. Re: Lexicon storage methodology
Posted by: "Feaelin Moilar" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 10:08 am (PDT)
> Ah, I need to read some dictionaries that I can't kidnap from my college
> library. Then this web editing would be useful. Adding extended
> characters are really easy, see that:
> http://ausonia.parnassum.org/teste.01.php . Take the code, if you (or
> anyone else here ; ) ) like.
That'd be handy! Have section on the side of the input screen to enter
special characters. So far, I hadn't needed to, since I already had them
in excel (cut-n-paste!), but if I went to PHP entirely, presumably I would
need a mechanism.
> give up of something, you have to "take of your poney out of the rain",
> 'tirar seu cavalinho da chuva'.
There has to be a story there. Not necessarily known, but still. :)
> Well, my fellow lusophones are not much interested in conlanguing. For
> them it's just a little odder than studying Latin on College, as I do.
I'm not odd! I think. I did take two semesters of Latin in College. :)
> BTW, do you have a grammar of your conlang? I'm curious now : ).
Yes. and no. A revision of the grammar was intended to follow the
phonology revision[1] and not just in the sense that the phonology of the
examples were all wrong. I had decided my original approach to both was
all wrong (too English-centric, for one thing) and embarked on a quest to
rewrite it. Some of the features that were english-ish had to remain as a
concession to friends, such as SVO order, even though I briefly flirted
with latin-like declensions.:)
The phonology got done, and I made it eventually through the dictionary
data to fix pronunciation, spelling, etc. But with the grammar, I went as
far as sketching out some of the syntax and the like, but hadn't really
formalized everything. then I got busy with other things (or distracted by
the PHP dictionary), and it more or less sat there. For example, I have a
pass at doing Weekly Vocab 1.2 from the _first_ time it was released. With
about 8 out of the 10 sentences done, and with many notes to myself along
the lines of 'This is a relative clause! How do the Tarai do relative
clauses..now?'
I was hoping to attack Vocab 1.2 again (since it just got reposted) before
Friday, but I think it won't happen. :)
Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. OT: Latex Help
Posted by: "Chris Bates" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 1:32 pm (PDT)
I posted this on the ZBB too. I'm desperate for help if someone could
give me any... I'm writing my ngwaalq grammar, and I really need long
tables that can span multiple pages to present my noun and verb
classifiers properly.
I'm having trouble getting the longtable package to work properly. I
have, for instance, the following table:
\begin{longtable}{c c}
\caption[A Complete List of Noun Classifiers]{A Complete List of Noun
Classifiers} \\
\endfirsthead
\endhead
\hline \\
\multicolumn{2}{c}{{Continued on next page\ldots}} \\
\endfoot
\hline \\
\endlastfoot
\hline \\
\multicolumn{2}{c}{Animate Classifiers} \\
\hline \\
\ti{qa:} & Man \\
\ti{fe} & Woman\\
\ti{\~u\~i} & Person \\
\ti{\v{c}a:l} & Same Status Friendly \\
\ti{t\'siPk} & Respectful \\
\ti{liabZ} & Respectful (God, Priest, King) \\
\ti{X\~a} & Lower Status Formal \\
\ti{noP} & Children, Lower Status Perjorative, Animals \\
\ti{\v{c}ak'} & Dog \\
\ti{\'si:l} & Birds, Fish \\
\ti{\v{c}i\v{c}'} & Insects \\
\ti{p'[EMAIL PROTECTED] & Trees \\
\ti{n\~ef} & Plant \\
\hline \\
\multicolumn{2}{c}{Type or Function Classifiers} \\
\hline \\
\ti{k\s{w}al} & Sweet Potato \\
\ti{me:Z\~e} & Fleshy Food \\
\ti{we\'s} & Vegetable Food \\
\ti{Pu} & Water, Liquid \\
\ti{\v{s}'[EMAIL PROTECTED] & Fire, Light \\
\ti{k'ai} & Boat \\
\ti{ha\v{c}} & House, Building \\
\ti{Zots} & Stone \\
\ti{xalk} & Salt \\
\ti{t\'si} & Seed\\
\ti{\v{s}a:} & Dirt\\
\ti{hon} & Books, Accountancy Tables\\
\ti{k't'a} & Hand Tool/Instrument \\
\ti{\textbeltl{}'a\textbeltl} & Mechanism (Complicated Internal
Structure)\\
\ti{maPt} & Body Part, Part of Whole\\
\ti{ku} & Abstract\\
\ti{eg\~i} & Period of Time\\
%\pagebreak
\hline \\
\multicolumn{2}{c}{Shape Based Classifiers} \\
\hline \\
\ti{s\~i:\v{c}} & Small Round Object (e.g. bead)\\
\ti{baP} & Long Thin Stick-like\\
\ti{qelf'} & Long Pointed (e.g. spear)\\
\ti{siPi} & Curvilinear Object (e.g. bow) \\
\ti{\textbeltl{}\~o} & Long Flexible Object (e.g. rope)\\
\ti{TXa} & Long Thick Object\\
\ti{f\~o:} & Flat Flexible (e.g. paper)\\
\ti{t\textbeltl{}'aP} & Flat Rigid Object\\
\ti{\'zuk'} & Flat, Sharp Edged Object \\
\ti{x\s{w}em} & Round Object\\
[EMAIL PROTECTED] & Irregularly Shaped Object\\
\ti{N\s{w}o} & Long Extended (e.g. rivers, roads) \\
\ti{mPu} & Bounded Space (e.g. Garden, Lake, City)\\
\ti{ts'e:} & Unbounded Space (e.g. Ocean, World)\\
\ti{buP} & Hollow Rounded Object (e.g. pot)\\
\ti{dza:n} & Long Hollow Object (e.g pipe) \\
\ti{t\~aq} & Ring-like Object (e.g. ring, necklace)\\
\ti{i\v{s}l} & Holes, Openings (e.g. door)\\
\ti{wa:} & Flat Vertical (e.g. wall)\\
\ti{me\v{c}'} & Small Non-Spherical Object (e.g. coin) \\
\ti{X\s{w}iX\s{w}} & Granular Mass (e.g. sand)\\
\label{noun-class}
\end{longtable}
Now, when I put this table in a latex document that contains nothing
else except for the essentials (\begin{document} etc) then it compiles
perfectly with no errors, no warnings, and after a couple of runs
settles down so that everything is perfectly positioned.
BUT. When it's located in its original place in the document it came
from (with lots of text before and after it) it generates two warnings
when it chooses to work properly (about half the time), and about 24
when it chooses not to work properly (in which case the rest of the
document compiles probably but half of the table vanishes and a long
number appears in its place). When it does work the lines and alignment
are not quite right. When I remove the table from the document,
everything compiles perfectly with no errors or warnings that would
indicate that the problem is elsewhere.
Now, I was putting up with this behavoir (since half the time it
compiled and looked just about right, even though it gave two error
messages), but when I try to add another longtable the document bombs
completely and won't compile properly at all (about 150 error messages).
Yet when I put two long tables together in a text file, each compiled
perfectly, rendered perfectly, and had no problems with each other.
Finally, in the original document the long tables are not listing
properly in the list of tables, yet in my test document which only
contained longtables all appeared when I added a table list at the start.
To conclude: is it me that's doing something unknown wrong, or is
longtable just buggy? Why isn't this working? I've just spent a few
hours trying just about everything to make the longtable package do what
I want it to, and nothing I've tried seems to work. I've checked the
entire document for any mistake elsewhere that could cause this, and I
just can't find one... so, since I'm not exactly an expert in all things
Latex, I'm asking for help. :)
Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: OT: Latex Help
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 1:25 am (PDT)
* Chris Bates said on 2006-09-07 22:08:56 +0200
> I posted this on the ZBB too. I'm desperate for help if someone could
> give me any... I'm writing my ngwaalq grammar, and I really need long
> tables that can span multiple pages to present my noun and verb
> classifiers properly.
I have no experience with longtable but I used supertabular in my
master thesis. I do know the reason to many other latex-bugs though,
might be that this is related.
> I'm having trouble getting the longtable package to work properly. I
> have, for instance, the following table:
>
> \begin{longtable}{c c}
> \caption[A Complete List of Noun Classifiers]{A Complete List of Noun
> Classifiers} \\
/snip/
> \label{noun-class}
> \end{longtable}
>
> Now, when I put this table in a latex document that contains nothing
> else except for the essentials (\begin{document} etc) then it compiles
> perfectly with no errors, no warnings, and after a couple of runs
> settles down so that everything is perfectly positioned. BUT. When
> it's located in its original place in the document it came from it
> generates two warnings when it chooses to work properly (about half
> the time), and about 24 when it chooses not to work properly (in which
> case the rest of the document compiles probably but half of the table
> vanishes and a long number appears in its place). Now, I was putting
> up with this behavoir (since half the time it compiled and looked just
> about right, even though it gave two error messages), but when I try
> to add another longtable the document bombs completely and won't
> compile properly at all (about 150 error messages).
I suspect it's not longtable's fault but one of the other packages you
use. For instance gb4e.sty, which is used for interlinears, has a
serious flaw that can break an astonishing number of packages. Gb4e's
flaw is that it makes superscript (^) and subscript (_) work outside of
mathmode. By commenting out the lines[*] in gb4e.sty that does this,
suddenly other packages stop complaining.
Another source of trouble in latex is that some packages insist on being
loaded last, or after so or so package, or before so or so package... in
the end, this means that some packages are incompatible with others.
The thing to do is start with the full document, then comment out all
the packages (except longtable) and turn the other pcakages on, one by
one. You might have to comment out pieces of text that uses the
packages too...
You are aware of \input and \include and friends, yes? Try to put a
section that heavily depend on a package or packages in their own file
and include/input them, that way they are easy to comment out while you
debug.
[*] The lines in question are these:
\catcode`_=\active
\def_#1{\ifmmode\mathit{\sb{#1}}\else${}\sb{#1}$\fi}
\catcode`^=\active
\def^#1{\ifmmode\mathit{\sp{#1}}\else${}\sp{#1}$\fi}
t.
Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: OT: Latex Help
Posted by: "Chris Bates" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 1:29 am (PDT)
>I suspect it's not longtable's fault but one of the other packages you
>use. For instance gb4e.sty, which is used for interlinears, has a
>serious flaw that can break an astonishing number of packages. Gb4e's
>flaw is that it makes superscript (^) and subscript (_) work outside of
>mathmode. By commenting out the lines[*] in gb4e.sty that does this,
>suddenly other packages stop complaining.
>
>
>
[snip]
>The thing to do is start with the full document, then comment out all
>the packages (except longtable) and turn the other pcakages on, one by
>one. You might have to comment out pieces of text that uses the
>packages too...
>
>
After experimentation, I've found that including longtable before gb4e
solves the problem. :) Thanks for your help... although these problems
with Latex seem to speak of a larger problem I have with its design: the
lack of encapsulation in general. For instance, gb4e does interlinears:
why does it affect the way text is rendered outside of the interlinears?
And why can packages interfere with each other to such an extent? Don't
get me wrong, I think a lot about Latex is great, it's just that (from a
user's point of view) its design seems to betray a serious lack of
consideration for restricting the scope of changes. A bit like a
programming language that makes it difficult to declare local variables
(thus forcing you to have all data as global)... or a programming
language that doesn't allow some module or class to override default
behavoir *only within its own code* rather than globally.
Of course, not having looked at the code I know nothing about how its
internals work.
Messages in this topic (3)
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3. Re: THEORY: "Quirky" Case -- "Quirky" Subjects and "Quirky" Objects
Posted by: "Eldin Raigmore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 3:37 pm (PDT)
Has anyone seen Masayuki Onishi's 2001 book "Non-Canonical Marking of
Subjects and Objects"?
It's edited by Aikhenvald Dixon & Onishi, and is Volume 46 in Typological
Studies in Language.
---------
If anyone has; does it contain somewhere a cross-linguistic definition of
(or set of tests for) Direct Object similar to Keenan's "Subject Properties
List"? If so, where?
-------
Thanks,
-----
eldin
Messages in this topic (34)
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4. Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 9:56 pm (PDT)
Last posted: April 12th, 2002
> From: Aidan Grey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Brought to you by D (for doctor) and possessive pronouns.
>
> Vocab:
>
> 1. doctor / healer
> 2. medicine
> 3. ear
> 4. eye
> 5. friend
> 6. itch and/or scratch
> 7. hurt / pain (the verb ... or not)
> 8. diagnosis
> 9. cure / heal
> 10. ill
>
> Context:
>
> 1. She is my doctor.
> 2. _That_ is _my_ medicine, and _this_ is yours.
> 3. She looked in their ears.
> 4. She looked in (or tested, or..) her (someone else's) eye.
> 5. Our friends are ill.
> 6. His scratch (the one on him) is worse than his scratch (the one he
> caused on someone else unspecified).
> 7. Do y'all's heads hurt? / Do you guys have headaches?
> 8. His diagnosis (that he gave) is that she will get better.
> 9. His diagnosis (for the disease he has) has a cure.
> 9a. She will cure my friends.
> 10. I am not ill anymore.
>
> Note:
>
> considerable room for playing around with semantics here. I've
> highlighted issues of inalienable or alienable possession, so that those
> who have such concepts in their langs can show it off. Also, 9a is an
> alternate, depending on which semantic range you go for with cure.
>
> Have fun! I hope to put Taalennin up this time, but don't hold your
> breath (coming up on the end of the term - major studying...)
>
> Aidan
Bonus Vocab (automatically from WordNet):
- scrupulousness, n.
conformity to high standards of ethics or excellence
- nutate, v.
rock, sway, or nod; usually involuntarily
Fiant verba!
----
If you want to post your own weekly vocab, please do not send it to
the list directly. To prevent unbalanced amounts of new vocab, send
it to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in order to enqueue it in the
regular weekly posting process.
Messages in this topic (1)
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